RW-12D Settings

[CubanJimbo]

Hi. New to Forum but have been reading as much as I can about my new sub here.

My old sub was an Energy monster that seemed to be making a lot of rattling or distortion, so I decided to try a new sub (the RW-12D) to see if the noise went away.

For the most part, it sounds better, but sometimes I do hear some strange distortion, so I thought I would see if some sages on here had some suggestions to try.

The sub is placed next to my front right speaker, facing the main listening position. I've run the Audyssey setup on the Denon AVR a few times. The first time it set the sub level at -12 db, so I thought it ran out of attenuation room. I then reduced the volume setting on the sub to about -13 db and ran the setup again. This time, the setting went to -3 db. The LPF is set to off on the sub and the EQ is at Punch.

I would like to get a bit more bass from the system----used mostly as an HT to watch movies. I rarely--if ever--listen to music in that room. So, does anyone think my settings should be changed? Or the sub moved?

The room is rectangular and has 3 walls with the 4th side being a half wall open to the kitchen.

Thanks,

Jim

[CECAA850]

How big is the room?

How loud do you listen to movies?

Can you describe when you hear the distorted sound?

[sivadselim]

Give us some more info. To what size did Audyssey set all your speakers? Crossovers? And did you change any of that? If so, to what? Do you have the LPF of LFE in the Denon set to 120Hz?

I'm not sure what you mean by "I would like to get a bit more bass" but I would experiment with the Flat and Depth settings, too, depending upon what it is exactly you want.

[CubanJimbo]

Thanks.

The room is 20' by 14'. Normally, I listen to movies around -10 db on the AVR volume meter. The sound is hard to describe. It's maybe coming from the air port at some paricular frequency. It doesn't happen all the time or necessarily when there is a lot of signal to the LFE channel. Like I mentioned, the Energy sub has a LOT more of this type of noise, so I thought it might be bad due to it's very long life (maybe 12 or more years).

[CubanJimbo]

Give us some more info. To what size did Audyssey set all your speakers? Crossovers? And did you change any of that? If so, to what? Do you have the LPF of LFE in the Denon set to 120Hz?

I'm not sure what you mean by "I would like to get a bit more bass" but I would experiment with the Flat and Depth settings, too, depending upon what it is exactly you want.

Audyssey set my speakers to small. Initially, the fronts were set to 40Hz for the crossover and the center to 90 Hz. I changed that to 80 Hz for the fronts. The LPF of LFE in the Denon is set to 110 Hz. It was initially set by Audyssey to 100 Hz, but I bumped it up.

I initially had the sub EQ set to Flat (factory setting I think) and then changed it to Punch to see if it gave movies a deeper bass.

Thanks.

[xander1925]

The noise you are hearing are plastic creaking and rattling from the front plastic where the Klipsch logo is situated. You can fix that by sticking paper to it and make sure paper goes until the bottom

This should illiminate the creaking/rattle sound as it prevents the plastic from touching each other..This fixed mine..

With paper inserts

[CubanJimbo]

The noise you are hearing are plastic creaking and rattling from the front plastic where the Klipsch logo is situated. You can fix that by sticking paper to it and make sure paper goes until the bottom

This should illiminate the creaking/rattle sound as it prevents the plastic from touching each other..This fixed mine..

With paper inserts

Thanks! That sure sounds like a possibility. I'll give it a try.

[Utard]

Try LPF on at 100 and on depth. Search the forum for bass test down load and make cd.

Run bass test cd and change the phase until it sounds good.

[sivadselim]

The LPF of LFE in the Denon is set to 110 Hz. It was initially set by Audyssey to 100 Hz, but I bumped it up.

Audyssey doesn't set that setting. There is really no reason that it shouldn't be set to 120Hz. The LFE channel can contain info as high as 120Hz.

I
initially had the sub EQ set to Flat (factory setting I think) and then
changed it to Punch to see if it gave movies a deeper bass.

Why would you not use the Depth setting if you wanted "deeper" bass? Frankly, with Audyssey, I'd be tempted to just set it to Flat prior to running Audyssey. You might find THIS thread of interest, though.

Try LPF on at 100.....

Why?

[CubanJimbo]

The LPF of LFE in the Denon is set to 110 Hz. It was initially set by Audyssey to 100 Hz, but I bumped it up.

Audyssey doesn't set that setting. There is really no reason that it shouldn't be set to 120Hz. The LFE channel can contain info as high as 120Hz.

I

initially had the sub EQ set to Flat (factory setting I think) and then

changed it to Punch to see if it gave movies a deeper bass.

Why would you not use the Depth setting if you wanted "deeper" bass? Frankly, with Audyssey, I'd be tempted to just set it to Flat prior to running Audyssey. You might find THIS thread of interest, though.

Try LPF on at 100.....

Why?

I actually thought that the "punch" setting was for movies and the "depth" setting was for music. That was the only reason I picked punch. But, I did have it set to flat when I ran the Audyssey process. I'll try the depth setting and see what gives. Also, I had read that the LPF should be at 120 hz (might have been in some Audyssey guide), so I'll set it back to 120.

Thanks

[CubanJimbo]

Guys,

What about the debate over using a Y-splitter at the sub to connect the LFE cable from the receiver to both of the sub's L and R RCA terminals? I had this one my old sub, so I kept it on there. Should I remove it on this RW-12D sub?

Thanks.

[xander1925]

Using a Y-splitter is fine, your sub output will actually gain if you use Y. No harm in keeping it. I have dual RW12D and both is connected to my single Sub out in receiver with two Y spliiter on both sub..

[sivadselim]

What about the debate over using a Y-splitter at the sub to connect the LFE cable from the receiver to both of the sub's L and R RCA terminals?

There is no reason to use a Y-splitter. The "gain" in output that you get from using a splitter isn't a "gain" that can't be obtained with the sub's own master volume or with a higher level trim in the AVR. A Y-splitter won't increase the sub's overall headroom. You are going to calibrate the sub to a particular level, anyway, so any perceived "gain" is moot.

That said, it won't hurt. It can help in some instances where the sub's Auto-ON (if you use this) does not trigger properly, although the AVR's sub level trim can usually be tweaked to do the same thing.

[CubanJimbo]

Why would you not use the Depth setting if you wanted "deeper" bass? Frankly, with Audyssey, I'd be tempted to just set it to Flat prior to running Audyssey. You might find THIS thread of interest, though.

Thanks for that link! Now, I want to get a second one for that room. Maybe the two will even out any problems.

[CubanJimbo]

There is no reason to use a Y-splitter. The "gain" in output that you get from using a splitter isn't a "gain" that can't be obtained with the sub's own master volume or with a higher level trim in the AVR. A Y-splitter won't increase the sub's overall headroom. You are going to calibrate the sub to a particular level, anyway, so any perceived "gain" is moot.

That said, it won't hurt. It can help in some instances where the sub's Auto-ON (if you use this) does not trigger properly, although the AVR's sub level trim can usually be tweaked to do the same thing.

Thanks for the explanation. Since it won't hurt, I'll just leave it in. Those Monster RCA plugs are a ***** to pull off. []

[sivadselim]

I actually thought that the "punch" setting was for movies and the "depth" setting was for music. That was the only reason I picked punch. But, I did have it set to flat when I ran the Audyssey process. I'll try the depth setting and see what gives.

I think you sort of have it backwards but those settings are not necessarily specifically for music or movies, really. They are for adjusting the sub's output to your own taste. Usually Punch is considered to be desirable for music but it can also help with movies. And Depth is usually considered something more desirable for movies, which usually, generally, contain deeper content than music.

Applying either of those settings after running Audyssey with the sub's EQ set to Flat will obviously alter the equalization that Audyssey applied. And, yes, I think that if you want them to function as they are supposed to function, you should run Audyssey with the sub set to Flat, first, as you seem to be doing. But, theoretically, you could imagine a situation where, depending upon what the sub's native in-room frequency response (FR) looked like, setting either the Punch or Depth setting prior to running Audyssey could actually be beneficial in terms of reducing the amount of EQ that Audyssey has to apply. So, for example, if you had a dip in your FR at or near the frequencies that the Punch setting enhances, you could use the Punch setting to help eliminate that dip prior to running Audyssey. Assuming a flat FR is what you want (and it might not be), if you could measure the in-room FR of all 3 of the sub's available EQ settings with no Audyssey EQ applied, you could determine which setting provides the flattest FR, to start.

But, again, with Audyssey, and no way to measure the native in-room FR of the settings, I would be tempted to set the sub's EQ to Flat, run Audyssey, and leave it alone. Applying those settings atop the equalization that Audyssey is applying seems to me to be a bit superfluous. Keep it simple.

What version of Audyssey do you have?

[sivadselim]

Thanks for that link!

Just realize that those were HIS specific results in HIS room. He found that with the 2 subs in HIS room, with no equalization applied by Audyssey, the Depth setting provided the flattest response. You might get different results, though, were you to do those measurments, yourself, in YOUR room.

[CubanJimbo]

I think you sort of have it backwards but those settings are not necessarily specifically for music or movies, really. They are for adjusting the sub's output to your own taste. Usually Punch is considered to be desirable for music but it can also help with movies. And Depth is usually considered something more desirable for movies, which usually, generally, contain deeper content than music.

Applying either of those settings after running Audyssey with the sub's EQ set to Flat will obviously alter the equalization that Audyssey applied. And, yes, I think that if you want them to function as they are supposed to function, you should run Audyssey with the sub set to Flat, first, as you seem to be doing. But, theoretically, you could imagine a situation where, depending upon what the sub's native in-room frequency response (FR) looked like, setting either the Punch or Depth setting prior to running Audyssey could actually be beneficial in terms of reducing the amount of EQ that Audyssey has to apply. So, for example, if you had a dip in your FR at or near the frequencies that the Punch setting enhances, you could use the Punch setting to help eliminate that dip prior to running Audyssey. Assuming a flat FR is what you want (and it might not be), if you could measure the in-room FR of all 3 of the sub's available EQ settings with no Audyssey EQ applied, you could determine which setting provides the flattest FR, to start.

But, again, with Audyssey, and no way to measure the native in-room FR of the settings, I would be tempted to set the sub's EQ to Flat, run Audyssey, and leave it alone. Applying those settings atop the equalization that Audyssey is applying seems to me to be a bit superfluous. Keep it simple.

What version of Audyssey do you have?

Not sure where that would be. The receiver is the Denon 3311. The features state MultEQ XT.

[CubanJimbo]

Well, I changed the sub EQ to "Deep" and ran the Audyssey process agai--actually did all 8 positions this time. The sound seems great for all the speakers BUT the sub is still a bit weak. Audyssey set it with -6 db this time.

I'll keep trying with some of the sinewave files I downloaded and some action movies to see if I can get stronger bass. Probably will have to move the sub or point it in another direction.

[sivadselim]

The features state MultEQ XT

That's it. This is a reasonably capable version of Audyssey.

Well, I changed the sub EQ to "Deep".........

Why?

.......actually did all 8 positions this time.

Good idea, probably.

...........the sub is still a bit weak. Audyssey set it with -6 db this time.

The actual value you end up at for the subwoofer's level trim is sort of meaningless. It is relative to the sub's master volume. Audyssey (and your AVR) set it to a value that calibrated your subwoofer to the correct level. If you were to turn the sub's own master volume down by 6 dB and run Audyssey again, the subwoofer level trim in the AVR should come out to be "0 dB". It's all relative.

............to see if I can get stronger bass.

You may just prefer the sub's output a little higher than Audyssey sets it. Within reason (a few added dBs), there is really nothing wrong with this. Many people prefer to run there subs a few dBs 'hot'.

Probably will have to move the sub or point it in another direction.

You need to re-run Audyssey each time you make changes.