Klipschguy Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 Alright you guys, all this talk about vinyl had me spinning records last night on my old Dual turntable. Sounded pretty good through my old Cornwalls and Volkswoofer! BTW, the walnut cabinets on the three forementioned components look pretty classy together. Question: I currently have an Ortofon OM30 MM cartridge with only about 10 hours on it. It sounds decent, but I'm considering a Grado Gold (I heard my brother's through his Cornwalls). Grado's seem to have such a full sound, I suspect it would shame my little Ortofon. Any thoughts? Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 What table? What tonearm? What kind of music do you listen to? It's hard to give you an opinion unless you tell us more! Personally, I have had nothing but misery with Grado cartridges over the years--not becasue they don't sound terrific, but becasue I have used AC-synch turntables and Grados hum like a banshee in this application. And I'm a freak for Ortofon SPU moving-coil cartridges. Anyway, let us know and I'm sore a lot of us can give you some sugggestions about cartridges! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 Allan is right about the Grados. They can sound good, but they are very tricky at times and have no suspension and can hum and feedback in many applications. For cartridges, the application really does matter. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipschguy Posted June 13, 2002 Author Share Posted June 13, 2002 Okay, it's an old style semi-auto Dual (1228, I think) with a straight tonearm (nothing special). I'm considering a Thorens TD165 to replace it. I used to have an Ortofon MC which sounded good. Unfortunately, the needle got destroyed (I don't even know where that cartidge is anymore). The Ortofon OM30 has a fine line needle (if I recall) and to my ears has good transparancy, but seems to lack the robust bass of the Grado. My music varies widely from blues to rock to country to classical. I particularly like to listen to Ray Charles on vinyl. I'm not dead set on Grado, or against Ortofon, I just want a FULL, rich, warm tone. I love my CD's, but getting out the old vinyl is nice. I know little about cartridges, but I do understand different manufacturers have their own characteristic sound. So, I'm looking for a little direction. Nothing too esoteric, just the most bang for the buck and worthy of the Cornwalls. Thanks Allan and Mobile for your replies, Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 Andy, one of my favorite cartridges for a big sound akin to tubes is the stock Blue Point by Sumiko. There are better cartridges around for more money but this little cartridge (when on sale that is) is a good deal and sounds very full, rich, and atmospheric. It has gotten better over the years but when found for under $150 is a good deal. I have never paid over 125 for one but you dont see it this low too often. It's a high output MC so is no problem with amplification. I usually recommend this one as a step from the Grados etc. I had this on my girlfriend's Yamaha direct drive YP-D6 from the 70s and it elevated this table to a much higher place (with a sorbathane mat as well). I was really surprised. I have always found this cartridge musical. There are many options out there, however. kh ------------------ Phono Linn Sondek LP-12 Vahalla / Linn Basic Plus / Sumiko Blue Point CD Player Rega Planet Preamp Cary Audio SLP-70 w/Phono Modified Amplifier Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondog Monoblocks Cable DIYCable Superlative / Twisted Cross Connect Speaker 1977 Klipsch Cornwall I w/Alnico & Type B Crossover system one online / alternate components / Asylum Listing f>s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 Ok. The most versitle "low price" cartridge I know of is also a HO MC one--the Dynavector 10X4, but it will set you back about $250 on sale. My favorite cheap MM is the Goldring 1012--you'll like it--almost everyone who tries it does. And the Blue Point is a helluva deal--I totally agree with Mobile on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BobG Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 That 1228 tonearm, though dynamically balanced, has a fair amount of moving mass and may not be a great combo with the Ortofon. I sold a ton of Grado/Dual combos as well as Grado/Philips, Grado/Thorens etc. I like the Grado cartridges a lot and have not had any suspension problems with them. Good sound at even lowest price models. Being a moving iron design (did you know Joe Grado held the patent on MC design in the US so cart. manufacturers here avoided that design?) they are susceptible to the hum field of an AC synchronous motor, but some of those have shield cup options and the Thorens does not us an AC motor to my knowledge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipschguy Posted June 13, 2002 Author Share Posted June 13, 2002 Thank you kindly Mobile, Allan, and Bob for your replies. I looked up the high output MC's like the Blue Point and the Dynavector and saw they both have only 2.5mV output. While they may sound exquisite, this output thing has me concerned. My current Ortofon has 4mV of output and I still kinda have to crank the volume on my Yamaha for high output -especially compared to my CD player. I suspect I would have the 2.5mV around 2:00 for a good session. One wrong push on the remote source button and it would be an instant (and unwelcome) "Who concert" - you the one that held the world record for the loudest concert? The Goldring 1012 looks promising. Good reviews and 6.5mV of output (should be up to speed with my CD player!!). I can't find it under about 2 bills, though. How would a Goldring 1012 compared to a Grado Gold in the bass department? Bob, my ears are telling me what you said. The Ortofon and the Dual seem mismatched, and my brother's Grado/Thorens combo is sweet. Sure wish I could hear Kelly and Allan's recommendations. Well, I know all three of you guys listen to Cornwalls, so thanks again for your recommendations. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipschguy Posted June 14, 2002 Author Share Posted June 14, 2002 Well, the decision has been made. I ruined the headshell on my Dual last night (don't ask), so the Dual is getting replaced with a Thorens 160 or 165. For the cartridge, I'll go with the Blue Point - if I can find some sort of device to amplify the output a little into my MM phono input. Otherwise the Goldring 1012 looks like the ticket. Thanks guys, Andy This message has been edited by Klipschguy on 06-14-2002 at 03:22 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted June 14, 2002 Share Posted June 14, 2002 ARe you talking the 1.2 model? Although not the stalwart of high-end analog, this MMF 1.2 is a damn good table for the money, especailly for your first rig. IS it NEW or used? If used, HOW used? kh ------------------ Phono Linn Sondek LP-12 Valhalla / Linn Basic Plus / Sumiko Blue Point CD Player Rega Planet Preamp Cary Audio SLP-70 w/Phono Modified Amplifier Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondog Monoblocks Cable DIYCable Superlative / Twisted Cross Connect Speaker 1977 Klipsch Cornwall I w/Alnico & Type B Crossover system one online / alternate components / Asylum Listing f>s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipschguy Posted June 14, 2002 Author Share Posted June 14, 2002 kh, I was looking at the Music Hall mmf 1. Which is a simple, belt driven turntable with a Music Hall Magic Cartridge, all brand new for $179. I figured I could upgrade the cartridge later. Do think a Music Hall will out class the Thorens? A used Thorens, in nice condition, will cost me about the same as the new Music Hall. Maybe I'm being too nostalgic about the Thorens and should get something new. BTW, when I didn't get a response on my last post, I edited it to reflect my current thoughts - just didn't want three posts in a row. But I am still curious about the Music Hall mmf 1. (If you read my previous post you'll see I'm pretty determined to get a new turntable after the Dual misadventure last night). Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowooo Posted June 14, 2002 Share Posted June 14, 2002 Klipschguy....Instead up upgrading cartridges right away you might want to try to get into the MMF-2.1 which has a Goldring Elan cartridge. I bought a new MMF-5 about two years ago and I compared the MMF-2.1 and MMF-5 and the MMF-5 sounded much better. At that time I really wanted to stay around 300.00 but I figured I'd be kicking myself and wouldn't be able to enjoy the sound of the 2.1 knowing how much better the 5 is for 190.00 more dollars. As for the 1.2 I can honestly say I've never heard it but I can truly recommend the MMF-5. By the way it does come with the Goldring G1012 MM that Allon mentioned. GOOD LUCK ------------------ 2 Channel System: Klipsch Epic CF-2s McIntosh C-15 Preamplifier Adcom GFA 5500 Amplifier Music Hall MMF-5 Table Adcom GCD 700 CD Adcom ACE-515 AC Enhancer Transparent Audio Cabless> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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