artto Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 I'm in a dilemma. For decades I've been using a derrived (mono) center channel speaker between the L&R stereo main speakers.With analog this is easy. And I can separately control the center speaker volume via the power amplifier and add a time delay to align it with the side speakers. In the digital domain this is proving to be quite a quest. It appears to me that at this time the only way for me to get something even remotely similar using a digital source and keeping the signal in the digital domain through the power amplifier stages is to use some kind of multi-channel processing like Dolby ProLogic or DTS Neo, all of which (as far as I know) have some kind of various required enhancement selection algorithm (ie: "Live" -" Jazz" - "Pop/Rock", etc), nothing with a "none" that produces a simple center channel "mix". Am I looking for something that doesn't exist? If so I guess I'm staying with analog so I don't have to be tied to an algorithm some schmuck in the back room came up with that he thinks sounds best and is what I'm forced to use. [8o|] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 On Onkyo/Integra stuff it is called "All Channel Stereo". It works with any signal from stereo up to Dolby Digital. Does that sound like what you are looking for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 I'm in a dilemma. For decades I've been using a derrived (mono) center channel speaker between the L&R stereo main speakers.With analog this is easy. And I can separately control the center speaker volume via the power amplifier and add a time delay to align it with the side speakers. In the digital domain this is proving to be quite a quest. It appears to me that at this time the only way for me to get something even remotely similar using a digital source and keeping the signal in the digital domain through the power amplifier stages is to use some kind of multi-channel processing like Dolby ProLogic or DTS Neo, all of which (as far as I know) have some kind of various required enhancement selection algorithm (ie: "Live" -" Jazz" - "Pop/Rock", etc), nothing with a "none" that produces a simple center channel "mix". Am I looking for something that doesn't exist? Art,I am posting a JAES paper on 5-channel derivation from 2 channel that I believe might address some of your concerns with "enhancement algorithms". Note that the addtion of a simple but relatively high quality AVP that decodes into 5 or fewer channels (obviously 3-channel is your preference). Most quality AVPs will accommodate 3.0 and 3.1 setups, etc. The advantage of these units is that the enhancements can be turned off instantly. For instance, my Onkyo PRSC886 has a "Pure Audio" mode that turns off any enhancements or center/surround processing, even processing to the sub(s), AND the lights/LEDs on the front of the pramp in order to achieve the lowest noise figures possible. I use this setting when I'm in a purest mood, otherwise, I typically use the "stereo" mode that pulls in the subs but nothing else. The preamp has several processing choices, some of which are the gimmicky presets that I never use. But there are other non-gimmick settings that work for 3-channel. The advantage of the AVPs include things like Audyssey at no extra charge, which comes with microphone (which turns out to be a relatively good one for purpose) that allows in-room RTA using up sweeps. These are nice in that they also take out the delays of the subs (if they are horn-loaded) and speaker processors (like the Dx38 or SP2060) that most folks forget about when manually setting up their delays. The Onkyo also had delays up to 30 feet or more built-in. You can manually turn off the Audyssey-derived EQs (which I do since I use REW and an ECM8000 microphone for that duty). The AVP also has selectable crossovers to your sub(s) - full crossover or sub blend-in at various crossover frequencies from 40 Hz to 120+ Hz. In short - my recommendation is to borrow a good AVP and try it before buy. Then form your opinions on the utility of such devices. I find that I can't replicate all these functions well using any other type of preamp. Make sure that you find an AVP with HDMI inputs so that you can bypass your external analog outs from your input disk players. This, I find, is a big deal. Chris 2-to-5 channel sound processing.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted December 2, 2012 Author Share Posted December 2, 2012 Thanks guys. That gets me half of the way there. I still need to get the 3-channel (eventually 5 channels) digital signal to a 3-channel (or 5 channel) digital power amplifer or three digital mono power amps. The guy I spoke with at Best Buy's high-end HT store Magnolia didn't seem to have an answer either. I was hoping to do this with an all dgitial throughput reciever like Pioneer's SC-61 thru SC-68. It always seems to be one way or the other ~ digital pre/pro to analog power amps or 2-channel digital power amp (no way to get the third center channel, or an all digital AVR with limited power and all the unnecessary enhanced processing in order to get the third channel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 I really recommend a AVP over an AVR, since you probably already have good amps. I also recommend something like Audyssey to help calibration - it's so much easier than REW and a laptop/mixer/etc.The reason why I talked about the Onkyo AP is because know that this preamp is set up to do more of what you want than other pramps . YMMV.Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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