taylor Posted June 18, 2002 Share Posted June 18, 2002 Hi group, Im considering building a SE amp which will put out about 2-5 watts (depending on the design)and was wondering what other tube SE users think of the sound. I will eventually use a small IC based amp for a Khorn sub but will cross at 60hz or so, so the flea power amp will still be supplying the LS with their full range. I dont try and make my ears bleed anymore so do the tubes really make the horns sing. Ive been using SS amps and inefficient speakers for the past 16 years so I dont have much experience with this setup. Thanks, Taylor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted June 18, 2002 Share Posted June 18, 2002 I personally think the low watt single-ended is the way to go with the vintage Klipsch such as the Khorn, Belle, LaScala, Cornwall. The key is a good amp, however, as all SET are not created equal. While more inexpensive designs give you a taste of the magic qualities of the single-ended triode, moving to designs with high quality transformers, power supply, and parts really brings it to a higher level. The output iron is VERY important so skimping here brings about less then steller results depending. I have had a host of tube amps employing various designs on vintage Cornwalls and have generally preferred tubes over solid state 100% of the time (although Class A, Zero Feedback SS is OK). Yes, vintage tubes do VERY well and seem to be a synergistic match as the output iron on some of this gear was really exceptional and not duplicated today unless you go with better companies ie MagneQuest, Electraprint, Sowter, etc. But I have to admit that good SET (with attention paid to system setup and source) is on the next level in many ways. IF you are into building a kit, I would give serious attention to the Welborne 2A3 as well as the new Consonance Billie 300B/2A3 option. The top end Bottlehead options are popular as well. In addition, there are some interesting circuits and designs floating about online. A good place to browse is the Audio Asylum, more specifically, Tube DIY Asylum. I think the Welborne 2A3 Moondogs are a very good choice with a classic circuit. They are beautiful amps as well and provide amazing low end/high end extension. SET amps offer the easiest circuit to build as well. Parts quality does make a difference here as the parts are so few, you can hear cap changes. If not interested in kits, the used market via AudiogoN is a very good place to shop for SET amps. I think there are currently a pair of Wright 2A3 Monoblocks as well as some 2A3 WL Moondogs. Although you will get some serious disagreemment here, I believe the SET amp brings the horn to its fullest potential. I know of no other more natural sounding, open, musical, type of circuit. But as stated, there are differences in units. The SET Sound is hard to describe unless you have heard it. 99% of all detractors have: A. Never heard a high quality SET B. Had it on less than optimum speakers presenting a difficult load. C. Have source components that are not up to task D. Have not paid attention to System setup E. Attempted to play "1812" at full volume to undermine advantages. F. Are looking for HT type "effects" I will say that SET will not do everything. You CAN drive them into overload. But a high quality SET amp has the most graceful clipping characteristics of just about any amp design. The openness and purity combined with a virtual "lit from within" type of sound is almost exclusive domain of the optimum run single-ended triode amp. They exhibit an immediacy and intimacy that is second to none. Read all you want for and against this type of circuit. I would say you actually have to hear it for yourself to really understand. kh Phono Linn Sondek LP-12 Valhalla / Linn Basic Plus / Sumiko Blue Point CD Player Rega Planet Preamp Cary Audio SLP-70 w/Phono Modified Amplifier Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondog Monoblocks Cable DIYCable Superlative / Twisted Cross Connect Speaker 1977 Klipsch Cornwall I w/Alnico & Type B Crossover system one online / alternate components / Asylum Listing f>s> This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 06-18-2002 at 09:48 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted June 18, 2002 Share Posted June 18, 2002 I'm driving my Khorns with a pair of Welborne Labs Moondog 2A3 Set amps (3.5wpc). The sound is simply amazing. I can't imagine anyone being disappointed with the sound of horns and tubes. let us know what you end up building! ------------------ 2 Channel System: '78 Khorns w/ALK networks Welborne Labs Moondog 2A3 amps AES AE-3 Superpreamp DJH mods McIntosh MCD 7007 CD McIntosh MR-78 Tuner DIYCable Twisted Cross Connect Speaker Cable DIYCable Superlatives (preamp/amp) DH Labs Silver Pulse interconnects (sources/preamp) f> s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted June 18, 2002 Share Posted June 18, 2002 What do other SE tube users think of the sound with horns? They love it. I do not know if it is a) the accession of the Internet, and its boost to audio bulletin boards and small business e-commerce, or the popularity of solid-state powered sub-woofers, which frees low powered tube amps from the impedance of the biggest woofers, but either a or b has made tube amps the comeback kids that they are right now. Tube amps and the speakers to drive them are no longer do it yourself garage experiments. There are plenty of places to get them and plenty of places to support you when you do (thank you, Tom B, Ray G, mobile and a passel of others). I have to say that so far I love the sound that the massive Pass labs X250 ($4K) amp makes with just about any speaker I have heard so far. But, until I can drop a couple thou on one piece of equipment, and another couple of thou three times that on components of matching quality, I am thrilled with the combination that my low cost big old horns make with my flea-powered Bottlehead 2A3 Paramours. Unless you can afford the big bucks of super quality high powered SS amps, the delicate tubes with the ungainly horns is the way to go. If you can hold a soldering iron and read a schematic there is no reason why you cant make yourself a wonderful sounding amp. By the way, I am in the school that says you need a sub-woofer to get the most from your music and your movies. I think that is especially true when using flea powered tube amps on full range speakers. They do not have the control necessary to carry the impedance of low woofer notes. The bass lacks oomph. Therefore, I think that a really good SS powered sub-woofer, like the SVS tubes so popular here, is a de rigueur, for tube powered mains. And, 60 Hz may be too high for the crossover setting, depending on the speakers you get. My big old Cornwalls use the lowest EQ settings, typically 40 Hz, to blend in with the music, and higher settings for the punch of movies. ------------------ Colin's Music System Cornwall 1s & Klipsch subs; lights out & tubes glowing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylor Posted June 19, 2002 Author Share Posted June 19, 2002 Thanks for the comments. I checked out the Bottlehead site and the Paramour looks to be a nicely assembled amp. All the parts look to be high quality and the price is reasonable. Crossing over at below 50/60hz might be a problem since the LS only goes down to about that. The Khorn goes to 30 so the LF amp will only be supplying between those points. By the way, this is a music only system so mega bass for effects isnt really needed. taylor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weiming Posted June 19, 2002 Share Posted June 19, 2002 Hi taylor, One major advantage of the Paramours is the level of technical support one will receive through the Bottlehead forum, something akin to that found here. I sincerely believe you will not go wrong with this combination ------------------ My system Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted June 19, 2002 Share Posted June 19, 2002 Ummm.... I would just add one last thing. I dont think the quality of the Paramours is up to the level of the other suggestions. They are really designed to a price point and the transformers that come with the stock units are not extremely extended sounding. IF seriously getting into this, I would opt for something a bit better. Although the Paramours are great little amps for the price, they do not compete directly with other offerings, including the better Bottlehead gear. I also happen to be think the tube rectification provides a smoother sound and is more musical. Just one more consideration. The parts in the Paramours are really also picked at a price point as well. YEs, it's a great little amp for the ducats but I would aim higher. kh ------------------ Phono Linn Sondek LP-12 Valhalla / Linn Basic Plus / Sumiko Blue Point CD Player Rega Planet Preamp Cary Audio SLP-70 w/Phono Modified Amplifier Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondog Monoblocks Cable DIYCable Superlative / Twisted Cross Connect Speaker 1977 Klipsch Cornwall I w/Alnico & Type B Crossover system one online / alternate components / Asylum Listing f>s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted June 19, 2002 Share Posted June 19, 2002 I love them so much, if I had to do it over again, I would spend the extra ducats and aim even higher - coul be you last amp ... ------------------ Colin's Music System Cornwall 1s & Klipsch subs; lights out & tubes glowing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.