KG4.2 Room Placement Suggestions?

[tlarwa]

Picked up a minty set of KG4.2's and an SW10 sub for 2-channel use this weekend. They are in my 12'x19' dedicated listening room, placed on one of the 12' walls. Right now I have the KG4.2's placed the same as my Frugel-Horns were ... about 18" from the back wall and 12" from the side walls, toed in slightly. They are sounding good, and the imaging is okay (although not as good as the full-range Frugel-Horns), but I'm looking for suggestions on how these are typically placed (i.e. toes in or not, distance from walls, corner placement, etc.). A pic of the set-up is attached.

Thanks!

Tom

[Charlie Hustle]

Hello Tom, I can say having all the speakers on that one wall is not the best placement. I'd say one speaker in each corner would give you the best balance of sound. I know I really wasn't happy until I had sound coming off three walls. So even at soft volumes I still felt encompassed with the music. Also raising the KG's up a foot or so would really make em shine. Like say one of em directly on top of that subwoofer would put them at the perfect listening height and maybe another on a stand of some sorts. Or maybe another subwoofer if at all possible. Best of Luck with the placement

Charlie

[tlarwa]

The Frugel-Horns the red speakers) are not hooked up in the picture, just being stored there since I placed the KG's. The KG's are placed in the corners, for the most part. I'm interested in knowing how far from the side and back walls the KG4.2's like to be, and whether toe-in (and how much) is beneficial. They do not have a rear-firing radiator, like their predecessor, the KG4, so I assume the distance from the back wall isn't as critical.

[moray james]

looks like your frugel horns get the fostes up to your seated ear level and that is a big reason why they stage and image better. Raise
your Klipsch so the centre oof the horn is at your seated ear level an
thigs will improve a lot. You want to be looking down the throats of the horns. Play with positioning the Klipsch closer to the front wall and you may find that you won't need the sub.You will find that an equalateral triangle will yield the best results so the speaker CTC distance would be the same to your head in the listening position. You will then need to play with subtle toe in and out to fine adjust. Generlly speaking I have found placement on the long wall of a room is a better choice but we don't always have that option. Nice looking rig you have there. You may want to upgrade the Klipsch tweeter diaphragm to titanium (only $30.00 each) for a very big improvement in your speakers. You little fosted are very good and if you want to better them I expect you will need to makr the jump to ti diahragms. Only minutes to install and some time breaking in and you will be in a whole other league of performance. The KG4.2 is a very popular loudspeaker and it is well worth upgrading and there is lots that you can do with them.I have attached a copy of the KG4.2 schematic in case you don't have it. Have fun and enjoy. Great looking troom you have too. Best regards Moray James.

[tlarwa]

Moray,

Thanks for the response. The room was actually purpose built as a listening room, with the size following the "golden ratio". The distance between speakers and the listening position is indeed an equilateral triangle. All the room treatments were done based on the room characteristics and speaker placement (e.g. First reflection points, etc.). It was an interesting project (I did it all myself) and a great learning experience. One thing I did read in pretty much every reference I used is that the speakers should really never be placed on the long wall ... goes to show how much variability there is and how important it is to go with what sounds good to you! I'll get the speakers raised, or raised and tilted, to that the horns are at ear level. The Frugel horns are a little taller, but they are also tilted back at 5 degrees so the driver points at your head, The imaging is unreal. The issue with them is that they can't handle much SPL given they only use a 4" driver, so they're not the best for rock, progressive jazz, etc. So I'll keep both sets in the system and have the ability to switch between them based on what I'm listening to. I just ordered the Ti diaphragms from Bob Crites after reading all the positive reviews. I also read your post on upgrading the crossovers. If you could tell me where I can find 10AWG inductors I'd appreciate it. Or did you make our own. Also, which Mylar caps did you use? I haven't bought components much, so I'm not sure of the best place to go for them.

Thanks for the input.

Tom

[moray james]

Hey Tom: soundslike you did a lot of work and that it has paid off for you. I would suggest that you compare tilting Vs raising your speakers to ear level and listen to the difference. I don't like what tilting does to the stage whether the tilt is up or down it skews things. If you find listening while looking down the throats (speakers aiming directely at your head) too hot then try experimenting with a diffraction device in the form of a small ball placed into the throat of the horn. An official size ping pong ball is 40 mm in dia. and works well in a horn like yours. You can install it with a little thread and some tape just hang it in position from the upper flair of the horn. Position the ball so that you have a space of 3/8" between the ball and the horizontal side walls. That should be a very good starting point, I would not place it in much closer than that. For inductors you can contact Solen and see what they have in stock of get the best and go with North Creek. In caps foil an film will sound better than vapor deposited on films do. The mundorf are excellent caps you budget is going to be the determining factor. You might also want to experiment with bypassing the protection device used in the tweeter secton of the network If you feel that you cannot do without protection then look into using a automotive light bulb instead they sound better and they work very well. You will have to do a little on line searching for details. This should keep you busy for now. There are all kinds of other things that you can do if you want to play more later. Keep us posted and have fun listening. Best regards Moray James.

[tlarwa]

Great info, Moray. I'll play with the speaker height tonight. If I sit on the floor in front of my listening couch my ears will probably be at horn level, or damn close. I'll see how much of a difference that makes. That is often one of my listening positions anyway, just havent done it with the KG's yet. I'll also try the ping pong ball diffractor. I haven't heard of that tweak yet, but it makes sense. In fact, there is definitely a difference between the "hotness" with the grilles on vs. off, so it makes sense that this would affect it even more. I'll try the Ti tweeter diaphragm upgrade, speaker height and ping pong ball twaeks first, then decide whether to fool with the crossover rebuild at some point.

One more question ... is the tweeter protection switch the component labeled "RDE 070" in the schematic you attached in an earlier post? How exactly do I go about bypassing it?

Thanks!

[moray james]

sitting on the floor will give you a good idea to see what I am talking
about regarding having the mid hon on you ear axis. I have not been doing the diffraction ball mod all that long and
have not posted it on many sites so I don't expect that very many have heard about
it. Add to that is seems to many to be counter intuitive but it's not
at all. Re your crossover at the very least replace the 33uf electrolytic cap in the bass section with a composite of mylar film caps that will have a huge impact as your 33uF cap is a very cheap very old cap which is ready to die and likely sounds that way. Ypu can parallel two tens and a thirteen uf cap to make up your replacement cap. That will not cost a lot and it will make abig difference in your sound quality. Yes you can bypass the device with some copper wire solder tagged across its leggs. If you play the spakers really loud you will be able to hear when thsy are distressed some time before you blow thing up. I would not use the divice at all myself as it does not sound good. If you really want protection use an auto lamp in series the sound ok. If you have not blown up your Fostex I don't see why yould damage your Klipsch. Keep us posted and have fun. Best regards Moray James.