Altec VOT versus Big Klipsch Heritage....any comments?

[12ax7]

I might be able to score a pair of VOT's with 811 horns and dual 15"'s.

My goal is a fine SET 2a3 based system.

Thanks

[lynnm]

The VOT's are highly regarded by various users in this forum. You might wish to contact Qman as he is a knowledgeable proponent of that series and could provide guidance.

Bear in mind that building clones of classic speakers can save $$ but sometimes building true clones can wind up costing more than the cost of buying a good used pair of originals - If they can be Found!.

I am not saying Don't try it. I am however suggesting that you do the math and factor in a $$ value for the satisfaction of building your own.

If you are merely desiring to save some dollars by building your own speakers you may well be in for a disapointment.

On the other hand you may well get some real joy from building your own.

------------------

It is meet to recall that the Great Green Heron rarely flies upside down in the moonlight - (Foo Ling ca.1900)

[12ax7]

lynnm

I'm not really interested in DIY unless absolutely necessary.

I'm just looking for advice /criticism of the 2 systems based on experience.

BTW the room that the system will go into is only 12'x13' with a large opening<5'> into another 12x13ish room. That is where the best corners are in the house.

[TBrennan]

12ax7----VOTs vary depending on the drivers, horns and cabinets used. All make excellent upper bass and midrange, in this range I think they sound far more natural than the Klipsch Heritages. How the highs sounds depends on the compression drivers used; 802, 804, 806, 902 and 909 have better highs than the 807, 808 and 908. Using the first group of drivers expect to hear natural, clear sounding highs with no raspiness. Some think that Altecs highs sound soft compared to Klipsch; my best friend traded me his Altec 605s for my Cornwalls mainly because he thought the Cornwall had nicer highs and I liked the Altec's. In the bass much depends on the cabinet and drivers used. The best all-around Altec 15" woofer was the 416--98db efficiency, excellent mids and will reach down around 40hz in a vented box. The 515B woofer had better mids but won't go as low in a vented box. I take it the enclosures you're interested in are double 15s in a vented box. Late in the company's life they made some dual 15 vented boxes but I'm not familiar with them. All in all I consider VOTs superior to Klipsch, mainly on the strength of their uncannily natural midrange. As far as dynamics, output and low distortion go VOTs and big Klipsches are in the same ballpark. Visit the links on the Chicago Horn Club website for a great amount of Altec info. www.chicagohornspeakerclub.org

This message has been edited by TBrennan on 07-14-2002 at 10:05 PM

[12ax7]

Tom-

What do you think of these?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1365432353

I also noticed these 605a's

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1365549714

thanks for your input

[TBrennan]

12ax7---Those A7-500s are the classic Altec, they have the good stuff. The 511B horn and 500hz crossover sound a little more clear and "sharp" than the 811s and 800hz crossover though the difference is very minor. The cabinet is horn-loaded down to about 100hz and below that is reflex loaded and starts rolling off around 45hz. Note that the frequencies between 45hz and 100hz are down several db from those above 100hz. This is a compromise in the design but IME not a fatal one when the 416 woofer is used. The reason for the combination horn-reflex cabinet is so the driver on the upper horn can be put in the same vertical plane as the driver in the basshorn. The designer of the VOT, John Hilliard, had used folded basshorns before but was unhappy with the path length differences between the treble and bass drivers in such designs (this is a flaw in the Klipschorn and LaScala), thus the combination horn-reflex cabinet. The bass sounds clean and full and there is no better speaker IMO for reproduction of recorded electric bass. However the 515B woofer in the same cabinet sounds somewhat bass-shy. The A7-500 will make much better low bass than a LaScala but not as good as a Khorn but it beats both in the upper bass and midrange. To an Altec guy the A7-500 is a benchmark and the pair for sale look about as nice as any you'll see. Plus, cmon, don't they really look bitchin?

The 605A was sold as a recording studio monitor in the early-mid 1960s. I have a pair of these in my second system, powered by a vintage Fisher SA-100 tube amp. They are VERY good speakers. Used in bass-reflex cabinets they have bass response that is very full and clean with tremendous wallop. The midrange is very clear but somewhat warm sounding compared to VOTs, this a result of taking the woofer (basically a 416) up to 1600hz. Highs are clean and smooth, typically Altec in character. This speaker has the ability to sound "right" and sorta disappear with many recordings. It's smooth, efficient and dynamic and without a trace of raspiness or distortion, a very speacial speaker. I'd be hard pressed to choose between A7s and 605s. The 605 works in a much smaller box though. :-)

[mobile homeless]

Neat speakers and quite an interesting option to Klipsch. I need to get out and hear some A5/A7 Altecs again as I have not conciously heard them (who knows where they may have been lurking) in years and never hooked up to quality valves. Too bad I dont have the room in my place. Would love to hear the 605 as a reference point, too. Tom, what is the best cabinet for these you have seen implemented?

kh

This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 07-15-2002 at 05:34 AM

[Allan Songer]

I lived in a loft in San Francisco in the early 1980's with a guy who had FOUR VOT A-7s hooked up in one system. It wasn't quad, just two sets of speakers in stereo going at once. We had them hooked up to a Fisher 500C and a very early SOTA turntable (both of these were mine, the speakers were his). All I remember is that these played REALLLLLLY loud!

His taste in music ran to New York Dolls and and Velvet Underground and Television and he played them at ear-splitting levels. I remember playing Ornette Coleman's "Dancing in Your Head" so loud I thought my ears would bleed.

I'd love to hear them again some day in a better room with better music.

[mobile homeless]

Hey, those bands arent that bad! Early Television was really great. I got to see them when they reformed and they were still good though not with that same freshness that had in the ole Marquee Moon days. Their 45 "Little Johnny Jewel" was a classic and a great song. Their records are a little bright anyway though so trying to imagine them blaring on those A-7...lordy.

I wish I was living in a San Francisco loft right now!

Hey Allan, where is the link to your webpage?

kh

[Allan Songer]

I actually like The New York Dolls and Television and Lou Reed. I saw Television live in about 1977 or so. They were the LOUDEST band I have ever heard and I have seen some pretty loud bands! (Sex Pistols, The Clash, The Who, Johnny Thunders, etc.) Plus, how can you not like someone named "Richard Hell" anyway?

One thing all these records have in common is that THEY SUCK sonically! Terrible recordings and the VOTs were WASTED on this music. I would love to heard them play some old deep-groove Blue Notes and Contemporarys in room smaller than 40x60 with concrete walls and floors!

It's my wife's website for her cigar store, but I've buried my "100 best jazz LPs" under the "Bachelor Pad" section!

http://www.rjcigars.com/Mens%20Almanac/BachelorPad/bachelor_pad.htm

[mobile homeless]

If Television was the loudest band you heard, I dont know what was going on! heh... They usually are loud but not to that level, preferring to rely on crafty guitars - they really are not a high volume band. Not many got to hear that lineup in 77.

First time I have heard anyone mention Johnny Thunders in a LONG while - he is another great. I doubt anyone on here is familiar with these bands...perhaps a few. Richard Hell and the Voidoids was an all-time great in those days. I was not a fan of the New York Dolls as much but loved many of the other NYC bands. Jonathan Richman was another fine example (from Boston area though) when he was with The Modern Lovers (most people now only know him from that "Something About Mary" bit).

You would be surprised to know that the indie music scene in the 80s to 90s actually were very helpful in keeping vinyl alive as most of them released all their stuff on vinyl while 98% of the schlock out there went digital. Actually, some of the stuff is recorded quite well since there was minimum processing.

kh

ps- you should put your records webpage in your bio information here so people can access the list. I have been thinking about cataloging all my jazz lps. Having a wife with a cigar store sounds interesting. You dont see that every day...

This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 07-15-2002 at 10:47 AM

[Allan Songer]

Jonathon Richman was a fixture in the Bay Area when I lived there from about '72 through '84. I still think "Roadrunner" from the Modern Lovers LP is one of the great rock tunes of all time. By the time I saw him perform he was doing songs like "Government Center," still pretty cool buy about a million miles from the Modern Lovers stuff. I still think the Talking Heads must have listened to The Modern Lovers LP about nine billion times before they recorded their first record! And I mean that in a GOOD way!

I have a great Johnny Thunders story. In 1982 I was living in that loft in S.F. I mentioned earlier. My roommate's sister was a huge Johnny Thunders fan/groupie and she dragged his sorry *** to our place where he stayed for about a week while gigging in the Bay Area. It was just Thunders, not the rest of the band. The guy was the biggest junkie I have ever seen.

He couldn't even stand up most of the time and was on heroin 24-7. When it came time for him to play he'd have someone shoot him with speed about 20 minutes before going on and he'd do the show--and the shows were GOOD (for punk, that is!). I remember asking him how old he was and he said "27." He looked about 50. I walked in on him shooting up in our bathroom twice and it really made my skin crawl. You don't know how glad I was to see him go.

And yet he wrote the best punk-rock love song of all time: "You Can't Put Your Arms Around a Memory." I wonder how he found the time or energy?

Thanks for bringing back those memories!

[CaptnBob]

When I was a tech director for a college auditorium, I had the chance to directly compare some VOTTs with large Klipsch and Electro-Voice speakers, and my recollections are substantially the same as TBrennan's above. The VOTTs subjectively seemed to go a little lower than the LaScalas or Sentry IVs, although the bass was not as tight. The highs on both the Sentries and VOTTs seemed more natural and uncolored, with better dispersion, than the Klipsches, but not as extended, particularly on the big Altecs. The Sentries had a middle ground, not as crisp as the LaScalas, but more natural, especially on strings and voices. The Klipsches seemed the most dynamic and detailed, with more "punch." They had a much higher "Get up and dance" factor, particularly when used in multiples, and better stereo imaging. We ultimately went with the LaScalas because they handled twice the power of the A-7s, and were two-thirds the size and weight. This was a factor as we would be moving them around campus a lot. Plus, they were a lot cheaper.

This brings up another factor for home use. The VOTT is HUGE, with probably the lowest WAF this side of a JBL Paragon.

As far as variants go, again TBrennan is right on the drivers, with the 500 hz horn the unit of choice. I've also heard the plywood cabinets are preferred to the mdf ones, and I'd definitely stay away from the "made by a skilled cabinet maker" ones ... there's just too much that has to done be right.

Capt'n Bob

[Allan Songer]

I had a chance to buy a Paragon not all that long ago and was all set to plop down THOUSANDS of dollars until I sat an listened for a while.

It's a crummy system. Sounded muddy and had lousy stereo separation. Maybe it was messed up, but nothing about the way it sounded made me want to part with $3500, that's for sure!

Too bad--this was always a dream of mine to own one of these monsters!

[TBrennan]

Capt'n Bob---That midrange horn on the Sentry III and IV, the SM-120A, was a real dandy. Had 120 degree horizontal pattern. I used that horn instead of the stock K-400 on my LaScalas and I think it improved the sound to no little degree.

[TBrennan]

Mobile---Most 605s were used in Altec 612 utility cabinets, you can easily find plans for these on the web. Mine are in Barzilay cabinets, about 6 cubic feet and with 2 vents. The vents are shelf type vents like the Cornwall has, one at the top of the box and one at the bottom. This cabinet works very well. If you ever want dimensions etc. of the cabinet let me know.

[jnorv]

I have been reading of late that the bass on La Scalas can be improved by adding several cubic feet to the rear chamber and then porting it. I havent run the numbers yet, but am thinking of giving it a try. By replacing the bottom panel with a box/riser, the mod would not be permanent. Any body have any suggestions on a starting point?

J Norvell

[12ax7]

Damn! someone outbid me...........Wow my marriage flashed before my eyes!

I know I could sweet-talk my wonderful and beautiful wife into K-horns definately.......LaScalas would take a little extra work..........VOTT's ?????? They must be the most Manly speakers on the Planet.

[mobile homeless]

Many thanks from this end to Tom, Allan, Capt Bob, and 12Ax7 for bringing it up; this has been a thoroughly enjoyable thread on all fronts, from intriguing info to music memories to good stories. This is the kind of thread that makes me want to return to the Klipsch Forums.

Kelly

[TBrennan]

12ax7---The fella that was auctioning those has a warehouse full of them, he'll sell them outright too. Contact him through his website at www.voiceofthetheatre.com He sells all kinds of Altec stuff; horns, drivers, enclosures, complete systems etc. His prices are fair. Meanwhile here's a couple of cool Altec pictures, courtesy of Lee Sound.