jwadd21 Posted August 4, 2002 Share Posted August 4, 2002 I recently purchases an LF-10 off of uBid.com, not knowing that there had been problems in the past. Hopefully mine will work ok, I get it on monday. If it doesnt work, I don't know what to do, send it back for return or try to get it fixed. Also, now I am hearing how great the SVS subs are. The Klipsch was 492 after shipping, and I wanna keep it around 500-600 dollars after shipping for my budget. The question is, should I return the LF-10 even if it works because the SVS are so good? And if I do, what SVS should I get in the 500-600 total price range. PS, I want a sub for 80% music, 20% HT. I want decent low low bass, but am slightly more concerned about bass that is fairly audible. Any suggestions? Actually, I realized that SVS recommends the PCi 25-30 for someone who cares less about very low frequencies, and more about volume. Is it true that the smaller sub is actually louder? just with less very very low bass. if this is true, then i am getting a smaller SVS if i do get one. This message has been edited by jwadd21 on 08-04-2002 at 02:29 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earle Decker Posted August 4, 2002 Share Posted August 4, 2002 I just picked up a a 25-31PCi and couldn't be happier with it. They are on sale now for $499 and worth every penny. Besides if you dont like it(which I doubt) you can return it. Being that your aware of the problems to LF series had, take the plunge and try the SVS, you wont regret it. I also have a pair of SVS 20-39s and the single 25-31PCi nearly matches the pair in output above 25hz. The new driver rocks, so much that I just bought the upgraded drivers for my 39's. Bass nirvana here I come. Heres a link to a used 25-31CS for a great price, get a parts express 250 watt sub amp, on sale now for $119 and you have a slamming sub for minimal $$$. This message has been edited by Earle Decker on 08-04-2002 at 09:28 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwadd21 Posted August 4, 2002 Author Share Posted August 4, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Earle Decker: I just picked up a a 25-31PCi and couldn't be happier with it. They are on sale now for $499 and worth every penny. Besides if you dont like it(which I doubt) you can return it. Being that your aware of the problems to LF series had, take the plunge and try the SVS, you wont regret it. I also have a pair of SVS 20-39s and the single 25-31PCi nearly matches the pair in output above 25hz. The new driver rocks, so much that I just bought the upgraded drivers for my 39's. Bass nirvana here I come. Heres a link to a used 25-31CS for a great price, get a parts express 250 watt sub amp, on sale now for $119 and you have a slamming sub for minimal $$$. The thing is, I don't know if I can even return the Klipsch unless it is defective. I think I will sell it on eBay if it works great and get the SVS PCi 25-31. Good idea? or should I get the 20-39? Like I said, I am a little more concerned with performance for music and volume than HT. But I also want something that reaches low. The 25-31 is 550 after shipping and the LF-10 is 492 after shipping(but i think i can get 600 after shipping for it on ebay). Thank you for any input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 What problemos did the LF-Series have? Hey! There is a coyote in my driveway! ------------------ Receiver: Sony STR-DE675 CD player: Sony CDP-CX300 Turntable: Technics SL-J3 with Audio-Technica TR485U Speakers: JBL HLS-610 Subwoofer: JBL 4648A-8 Sub amp: Parts Express 180 watt Center/surrounds: Teac 3-way bookshelfs Yes, it sucks, but better to come. KLIPSCH soon! My computer is better than my stereo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwadd21 Posted August 5, 2002 Author Share Posted August 5, 2002 The LF-10s apparently have air leakage problems in many of them. I want to get an SVS just because they are so highly acclaimed. I can get that 25-31 for 250 shipped, but I would want a better amp than some generic 250 thing from parts. What is the best amp for a single 25-31? I was looking at the marantz MA-500 and the MA-700. The 700 has more power and I can get it for 230 shipped, making the entire sub a 480 purchase shippsed. But I still dont know what kinda amp I should get for it. Then again, this means I have to return the LF-10. BUT I can only return it if it has defects. So I may have to sell it on eBay(could make a profit). What should I do. The LF-10 comes tommorow, and when I get it I can put it on ebay immediately. ??? I mean, the LF-10 is supposed to be a 1300 dollar sub right? It must be pretty damn good. and the SVS pci is only 500. How could the SVS at 500 be better than a sub at 1300? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M6 Driver Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 The LF-10 leaked air due to the punishing effects created with such a powerful amp pushing the driver in a rather small comparment thus resulting in a catastrophic failure in the marriage between amp plate and screws. TRANSLATION- The screws would either start backing out or were blown out. Hence one of the reasons the design was terminated. ------------------ "FULLY LOADED" J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 "What should I do. The LF-10 comes tommorow, and when I get it I can put it on ebay immediately. ??? I mean, the LF-10 is supposed to be a 1300 dollar sub right? It must be pretty damn good. and the SVS pci is only 500. How could the SVS at 500 be better than a sub at 1300?" Perhaps you can get them both and keep the winner? SVS has a 45 day return policy, I believe. Yes, you may be out shipping, but it's a small price to pay for the chance to compare them side-by-side since you'll have to live with your decision for a while (I imagine). As to how a $500 SVS can best a $1300 LF-10, well, it's all in the design and in the overhead. SVS' overhead is pretty low, I imagine, with no storefronts or dealer network to support. Plus, the tube design is acclaimed for its ease to build and its power. Several on this board have built their own, using readily available off-the-shelf parts. Something to consider, too, is that you're not looking at $800 worth of more/better parts in an LF-10 versus an SVS. Typical retail markup on audio gear is 100% (I believe), so using that guessimate means the SVS would wholesale for $250 and the LF-10 for $650. And that wholesale price includes a profit for the manufacturer. Which means we may be looking at less than $400/unit difference in wholesale costs, which can easily be consumed to a large extent by overhead. I a/b'd a $600 SVS 20-39PC with a 15" Velodyne Servo (MSRP when new $1700). They were neck and neck in my analysis. I ended up with the SVS because it would go louder (the Servo design throttles back the sub to prevent distortion). Doug ------------------ My System Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 "The LF-10 leaked air due to the punishing effects created with such a powerful amp pushing the driver in a rather small comparment thus resulting in a catastrophic failure in the marriage between amp plate and screws. TRANSLATION- The screws would either start backing out or were blown out. Hence one of the reasons the design was terminated." LOL to say the least,man you should be a comedian. Yes the air leak(s) are true,but your description is hilarious. Such a powerful amp pushing in a rather small compartment can work very well and for many years as is proven by Sunfire(the one that started it all)and Velodyne. And mind you the Sunfire and Velodyne use much more powerful amps "pushing" more heavy duty drivers in ...smaller cabinets! And they work well,no air leaks and nasty amp clipping. Screws blown out! LOL MUA HA HA HA Stop this sounds like the pressure inside was so immense that screws were pushed out! LOL This means at least 150PSI LOL And again I refer to SUnfire and Velodyne(HGS,SPL)where the max pressure is greater then the max pressure in the LF series.No screws are "blown out". Hey its not a pressure cooker here,even a pressure cooker wwould not blow out tight fitted screws.Unless you are doing experiments at the NASA lab and pushing a few thousand PSI. LOL "Hence one of the reasons the design was terminated" Excuse me but it one of several reasons,as the leakage problem can be solved by minor corrections during the assembly. The main problem was the nasty clipping the LF series was plagued by.I opushed a loaned(from the store,and brand new may I add)LF10 hoping it would stand well against the SUnfire Mark II.Well I was very disapointed.The air leak was a definite bug,but the nasty and scary clipping was the nail in the LF10's coffin.I was quite sure I damaged the woofer beyond repair! Anyway the LF10 is a bsub to forget,Klipsch has now a new line the RSW's.And they work great,no air leaks,better sound quality and above all NO NASTY CLIPPING. All ends well TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cardinal Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 Although I don't have experience with the LF-10, I do own a SVS 25-31PCi, and man, this can get PLENTY loud without bottoming out. I would recommend the PCi over the separate amp and SVS sub option - for the prices you mentioned, there's not much difference, and there is some value to getting an amp matched to the equipment and not have to worry about compatibility/filtering/etc. PCi amp is amazing! Plus, if you order the new SVS PCi, you can do a risk-free comparison test at home, and then either return the SVS or sell the LF-10 on Ebay. Best of luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 Excuse me Mr Drake Yes the SVS PC sub will go deeper...louder.All good but to say its sub bass quality is as high as the VelodyneHGS15 is not correct in my(experienced)view. The twin SCS Ultras I borrowed and used with my Carver TFM-75(now sold)are no doubt the most powerful subs for the price(non DIY here). Quality ranks in the top 20% yes,but not as clean as the HGS15 or 18. Its like to say the Klipsch RF-7's will play louder then the Dynaudio Contour 3.3's and have the same sound quality.Again not correct,they sure play louder(RF-7's)and bring very goood sound quality home but are not in the same league as the Dynes as far as sound quality goes. TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwadd21 Posted August 5, 2002 Author Share Posted August 5, 2002 Ok, I have decided I will sell the LF-10 on ebay and pick up an SVS. But, what amp should I use with the 25-31 CS? I can get a Marantz ma6100(125w) monoblock for 150 or an ma700(200w) for 200 or that cheap partsexpress amp for 120. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 Both the Marantz and the PartsExpress plate amp will work great.I would get the Marantz because of looks(hey you dont need to build a box for it)and your reciever has the sub gain and cutoff you need to take control of the Marantz power amp. If you were building your won DIY sub then the PartsExpress would be a better choice. Just my two cents TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwadd21 Posted August 5, 2002 Author Share Posted August 5, 2002 yes. but which marantz? ma700(200w) at $200 or ma6100(125w) at $150. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 Ah yes Get the MA700 TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 Pardon moi, TheEARs. Probably my fault for not being more specific. The Velodyne in question is not the HGS15 (which you have experience with). Rather, it was a 1500R. Not sure if you've had experience with that one as it is no longer in production. Thanks- Doug ------------------ My System Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 "Pardon moi, TheEARs." Its "Pardonez moi",anyway the HGS15 is a superior unit,more output and the tandem push pull VC design gives the HGS an edge in definition. TheEAR(s) Now theears This message has been edited by TheEAR on 08-05-2002 at 06:42 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 FWIW I have a MA-700 connected to my sub and am quite pleased. 300 watts into a 4 ohm load. And if you decide you need a little more punch, you can bridge two of them. Also, much more impressive looking than any plate amp. Built like a brick sh*thouse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 Nah you want a tank like GOD subwoofer amp,get a Krell MRA dude. Almost 700lbs of thunder,doubles its output all the way down to an arc welder like 0.5 Ohm! Now where are those lottery tickets?Damn I failed to hit the jackpot again. TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 TheEAR - It WOULD be "Pardonez Moi" if I wanted the whole phrase to be in French. However, I WANTED it to be Frenglish, kind of like "Le Weekend." (LOL). I'm kidding - I was wrong. I should have typed Pardonez Moi. Pardonez moi, s'il vous plait. Au revoir - Doug ------------------ My System Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 For sure there are much more powerful amps. But I'll stick with the MA-700 for the time being. Don't want, or need, anything more for what it has to drive and the room it is in. Having been close to real artillery being fired, I know I don't want to actually be able to come close to accurately reproducing the cannon shots on the Telarc 1812 Overture CD. I've already lost enough ear nerve cells from flying, shooting, and concerts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.