mother's corpse Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 (edited) With the right speaker in its proper right channel terminal its reading 84.9db @70hz, With the left speaker in its proper left channel terminal its reading 87.5 @70HZ. now swapping the right wire to left terminal i get 84.7 @70hz and swapping the left wire to the right terminal i get 87.9 @ 70hz. does this signal a problem with the AVR? and not the speakers? note i reset the AVR and have it in 2 channel mode and all settings correct. also when the wiring is correct. when i change the phase of the right speaker with a tone playing i can hear it get back in balance with the left speaker but the wiring is correct on both speakers i checked. i attached two Room EQ Wizard measurements. all levels are at zero and the whole avr has been reset to its default settings multiple times. Even measuring up close there is still a volume difference showing up in REW. I also measured each speaker with the same terminals and the issue remained so it may not be the avr. Edited March 24, 2016 by MrGrey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 The AVR is sending less output to it's right channel. I would cut both ends of the right speaker wire and re-strip them and see if it makes a difference. I'm sorry, but I can't understand what you said here: "note i reset the AVR and have it in 2 channel mode and all settings correct. also when the wiring is correct. when i change the phase of the right speaker with a tone playing i can hear it get back in balance with the left speaker but the wiring is correct on both speakers i checked. i attached two Room EQ Wizard measurements. all levels are at zero and the whole avr has been reset to its default settings multiple times. Even measuring up close there is still a volume difference showing up in REW. I also measured each speaker with the same terminals and the issue remained so it may not be the avr." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mother's corpse Posted March 21, 2016 Author Share Posted March 21, 2016 The AVR is sending less output to it's right channel. I would cut both ends of the right speaker wire and re-strip them and see if it makes a difference. I'm sorry, but I can't understand what you said here: "note i reset the AVR and have it in 2 channel mode and all settings correct. also when the wiring is correct. when i change the phase of the right speaker with a tone playing i can hear it get back in balance with the left speaker but the wiring is correct on both speakers i checked. i attached two Room EQ Wizard measurements. all levels are at zero and the whole avr has been reset to its default settings multiple times. Even measuring up close there is still a volume difference showing up in REW. I also measured each speaker with the same terminals and the issue remained so it may not be the avr." I took a new length of wire and there was no difference. I took that same wire and used it for both speakers and the volume difference was still present. Ok I'll clear it up sorry . I played a tone in REW and changed the speaker distance of the right speaker and it made a little diffrence with the phase change but the levels remaind low when measured. Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 I had a hard time following because you used one giant paragraph, but I'm trying to stay with you. AVR RIGHT channel: Right speaker measures 84.9, which is low. Move the wires to the LEFT speaker and it measures 84.7. This means the lower output of the RIGHT on the AVR is about the same on each speaker, correct? AVR LEFT channel: Left speaker is 87.5 which is higher than the right channel. Move those wires to the RIGHT speaker and the output is 87.0, correct? Conclusions: Each speaker can output the higher SPL. The RIGHT CHANNEL is outputting the lower SPL to each speaker. If you are sure the speaker wire is not a variable, then it sounds like the AVR is putting out a weaker signal on the RIGHT side. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Then if you are measuring the different speakers from the exact same place in the room and with the microphone the exact same height and distance from the speakers and they are different, then it's the AVR. Make sure you don't have a little balance knob on the front of your AVR. I've had that happen to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 (edited) What device is generating the test tone? Is it the AVR itself or another source like your computer? I'm trying to eliminate variables to the least common denominator. BTW, if you are using the computer to generate the tone then Mustang Guy and I are thinking along the same lines. You want to make sure the balance is not biased to one side. (which I have done as well) Edited March 21, 2016 by wvu80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mother's corpse Posted March 21, 2016 Author Share Posted March 21, 2016 I had a hard time following because you used one giant paragraph, but I'm trying to stay with you. AVR RIGHT channel: Right speaker measures 84.9, which is low. Move the wires to the LEFT speaker and it measures 84.7. This means the lower output of the RIGHT on the AVR is about the same on each speaker, correct? AVR LEFT channel: Left speaker is 87.5 which is higher than the right channel. Move those wires to the RIGHT speaker and the output is 87.0, correct? Conclusions: Each speaker can output the higher SPL. The RIGHT CHANNEL is outputting the lower SPL to each speaker. If you are sure the speaker wire is not a variable, then it sounds like the AVR is putting out a weaker signal on the RIGHT side. You are totally Correct. I'll have to do one more test to confirm 100% then I'll see what i can do. What is strange is when i the right channel for both speaker the left is still low.Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mother's corpse Posted March 21, 2016 Author Share Posted March 21, 2016 What device is generating the test tone? Is it the AVR itself or another source like your computer? I'm trying to eliminate variables to the least common denominator. BTW, if you are using the computer to generate the tone then Mustang Guy and I are thinking along the same lines. You want to make sure the balance is not biased to one side. (which I have done as well) I am using Room EQ Wizard, REW for short.Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mother's corpse Posted March 21, 2016 Author Share Posted March 21, 2016 During the Stock market attack scene in dark knight rises when bane says let's go mobile his voice is strong and full in the right speaker dominating the left which puts out nothing heavy as the right speaker. I turned off the center and had it in two channel mode. Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mother's corpse Posted March 21, 2016 Author Share Posted March 21, 2016 I am going to do more test right now to eliminate any doubts. If you have any recommendations let me know I'll be up all night. Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet_Hollow Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 I am going to do more test right now to eliminate any doubts. Have you tried measuring the voltage across each channel while using the amp's built-in test tones (which typically bypass internal processing)? Symmetric measurements would be a pretty good indicator that it's not the amp. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mother's corpse Posted March 21, 2016 Author Share Posted March 21, 2016 I am going to do more test right now to eliminate any doubts. Have you tried measuring the voltage across each channel while using the amp's built-in test tones (which typically bypass internal processing)?Symmetric measurements would be a pretty good indicator that it's not the amp. I've never tried. Please tell me how to do it. I have my multi meter right here with me, what voltage settings should i use and where do i put the leads?.Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 I am going to do more test right now to eliminate any doubts.Have you tried measuring the voltage across each channel while using the amp's built-in test tones (which typically bypass internal processing)? Symmetric measurements would be a pretty good indicator that it's not the amp. I was thinking of the low tech version of what you suggested if there is no built-in test tone. The old-fashioned way of doing that is to get in between AM stations if your AVR has an AM tuner which will generate a white noise in mono. Then put the AVR into mono mode and measure each side using the same speaker. As Quiet Hollow said you are looking for symmetrical measurements to rule out amp problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mother's corpse Posted March 21, 2016 Author Share Posted March 21, 2016 I am going to do more test right now to eliminate any doubts.Have you tried measuring the voltage across each channel while using the amp's built-in test tones (which typically bypass internal processing)?Symmetric measurements would be a pretty good indicator that it's not the amp. I was thinking of the low tech version of what you suggested if there is no built-in test tone. The old-fashioned way of doing that is to get in between AM stations if your AVR has an AM tuner which will generate a white noise in mono. Then put the AVR into mono mode and measure each side using the same speaker. As Quiet Hollow said you are looking for symmetrical measurements to rule out amp problems. My avr has test tones. Can you please tell me where to measure from?Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mother's corpse Posted March 21, 2016 Author Share Posted March 21, 2016 Am i doing it right? Test tone playing and 200m on the voltage. Right Left Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Interesting that the lower voltage is the left side. What changed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mother's corpse Posted March 21, 2016 Author Share Posted March 21, 2016 (edited) Interesting that the lower voltage is the left side. What changed?I have no clue. Same settings. Now look at this, within a db of each other untill it gets into higher frequencys. I will do more test and see if the avr changes in the next hour.. Maybe heat? Idk it's extremely vented so let's not throw random stiff out there. Note i made a new set of speaker wire last night. I will also test the voltage again to see if it's different from last night. EDIT - The voltage diffrence is still there. I will now test each speaker in the high volt right side to see how it responds. Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk Edited March 21, 2016 by MrGrey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 I can't see, are you measuring DC voltage or AC voltage in those pics? Also, can your multimeter handle the test tone frequency you are sending to it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 McG, it looks like you have done a good job trouble shooting. You have eliminated the speakers as the potential problem and you have established with science you have a voltage dip from one channel. The question now is what are you going to do about it? Get the AVR to the shop? Find a new AVR? +++ I hate to bring this up, but you may have had this voltage difference from Day 1 and never noticed or measured it until now. I have a Pioneer AVR that is at least 10 years old that has the L/R reversed in the headphone jack. I just discovered it by accident this last summer. So much for my golden ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mother's corpse Posted March 21, 2016 Author Share Posted March 21, 2016 I can't see, are you measuring DC voltage or AC voltage in those pics? Also, can your multimeter handle the test tone frequency you are sending to it?I am not sure if its AC or DC. When i sent it the test tone witt the settings in the picture attached it worked fine. Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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