mother's corpse Posted March 21, 2016 Author Share Posted March 21, 2016 Horns again. I am letting the avr warm up then repeat this test again. I want to see if when it gets hotter the test change. Idk what else to do and i have no clue what's causing these changes. Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusaDude Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 OP, you need to be doing AC measurements, not DC. Who cares if there is a 1 millivolt DC difference in your AVR outputs. Speakers do not like any DC voltage but a tiny amount they will usually tolerate. Your meter needs to be set at the 200 or 600 V AC scale. The lower setting (200V) will be more accurate(as pointed out by MustangGuy) and should suffice for your AVR outputs. Oh and Welcome to the Klipsch Forum........ and the madness. I thought he was... I couldn't see the pictures of the multimeter earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusaDude Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Horns again. I am letting the avr warm up then repeat this test again. I want to see if when it gets hotter the test change. Idk what else to do and i have no clue what's causing these changes. Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk I can't see (from your photos) what model speaker those are... but if they're the new Reference Premier series, the woofers don't cross over to the horn until 1700Hz-1800Hz. Anything below that is mostly output from the woofers. And if the mic is pointed at the horn while the test tone is sweeping through 100 Hz to 1000 Hz, you're going to see room resonances in your graph. Above about 1500hz, it looks like all the responses overlay one another to the point there would be no issues. From your previous graph of the woofers lower test tones, with the close mic'd response, it looks very close as well (no issues)... though it appears you were still measuring both speakers as the graph has "SP1" and "SP2" on it. Measure just ONE speaker... woofer from 40 Hz to 2000 Hz (close mic'd)... and horn from 2000 Hz on up. And do that with each of the 5 channels on your amp. That would show you if one channel of the amp has a level difference at a particular frequency. If all of those frequency responses overlay one another, then do the same thing with the other speaker. If you notice a difference, then it's the second speaker and not the amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mother's corpse Posted March 21, 2016 Author Share Posted March 21, 2016 (edited) Horns again. I am letting the avr warm up then repeat this test again. I want to see if when it gets hotter the test change. Idk what else to do and i have no clue what's causing these changes. Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk I can't see (from your photos) what model speaker those are... but if they're the new Reference Premier series, the woofers don't cross over to the horn until 1700Hz-1800Hz. Anything below that is mostly output from the woofers. And if the mic is pointed at the horn while the test tone is sweeping through 100 Hz to 1000 Hz, you're going to see room resonances in your graph. Above about 1500hz, it looks like all the responses overlay one another to the point there would be no issues.From your previous graph of the woofers lower test tones, with the close mic'd response, it looks very close as well (no issues)... though it appears you were still measuring both speakers as the graph has "SP1" and "SP2" on it. Measure just ONE speaker... woofer from 40 Hz to 2000 Hz (close mic'd)... and horn from 2000 Hz on up. And do that with each of the 5 channels on your amp. That would show you if one channel of the amp has a level difference at a particular frequency. If all of those frequency responses overlay one another, then do the same thing with the other speaker. If you notice a difference, then it's the second speaker and not the amp. That makes sense I'll do that now. These are the RP-280FSent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk Edited March 21, 2016 by MrGrey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mother's corpse Posted March 21, 2016 Author Share Posted March 21, 2016 (edited) Ok this is the horns. Only one speaker was attached and i cycled that speaker through all channels and then did the same for the other speaker. I am now doing the woofers. Each woofer five times just to be 100% sure we covered every part of these speakers. You can see that the surround channels is low for both speakers Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk Edited March 21, 2016 by MrGrey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mother's corpse Posted March 21, 2016 Author Share Posted March 21, 2016 Top woofer speaker 1 & 2. cycled through all channels for each speaker woofer. Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max2 Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 That's weird. I'm guessing you have already tried a different AVR or power source and ruled out speaker issues by swapping them? If not, I would be hoping the channel separation or crosstalk is a good bit off on the unit. Is there a speaker setup on the AVR that will send out the same level signal to each speaker?This is the only avr i have. And i swapped the speakers around. I have the sony STR-DH550.Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk If you're near AR I have an Sony AVR I would give you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mother's corpse Posted March 22, 2016 Author Share Posted March 22, 2016 That's weird. I'm guessing you have already tried a different AVR or power source and ruled out speaker issues by swapping them? If not, I would be hoping the channel separation or crosstalk is a good bit off on the unit. Is there a speaker setup on the AVR that will send out the same level signal to each speaker?This is the only avr i have. And i swapped the speakers around. I have the sony STR-DH550.Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk If you're near AR I have an Sony AVR I would give you. Unfortunately I'm in NYSent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 That's DC, and that multimeter can handle AC frequencies between 40and 100Hz: Set the multimeter on 20V~, and send an 80Hz or so test tone through. Shit, I meant 200V~ because there is no 20V~. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 That's DC, and that multimeter can handle AC frequencies between 40and 100Hz: Set the multimeter on 20V~, and send an 80Hz or so test tone through. Nothing shows up when it's on 20v and i play a 80hz or any other tone.Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk Not 20V there isn't a 20V ac on your multimeter. There is 200 and 600 V. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Ok so with 200m setting on the meter the Left channel with the speaker playing is 05.0 - 06.0 and with the Right channel its 06.0 to 07.0 Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk 200M is DC! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mother's corpse Posted March 22, 2016 Author Share Posted March 22, 2016 That's DC, and that multimeter can handle AC frequencies between 40and 100Hz: Set the multimeter on 20V~, and send an 80Hz or so test tone through. Nothing shows up when it's on 20v and i play a 80hz or any other tone.Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk Not 20V there isn't a 20V ac on your multimeter. There is 200 and 600 V.Yes that's what I meant just a mistype.Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 (edited) OP, you need to be doing AC measurements, not DC. Who cares if there is a 1 millivolt DC difference in your AVR outputs. Speakers do not like any DC voltage but a tiny amount they will usually tolerate. Your meter needs to be set at the 200 or 600 V AC scale. The lower setting (200V) will be more accurate(as pointed out by MustangGuy) and should suffice for your AVR outputs. Oh and Welcome to the Klipsch Forum........ and the madness. Yes! I said all that but flippin said 20V~ instead of 200V~. LOL Edited March 22, 2016 by mustang guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 That's DC, and that multimeter can handle AC frequencies between 40and 100Hz: Set the multimeter on 20V~, and send an 80Hz or so test tone through. Nothing shows up when it's on 20v and i play a 80hz or any other tone.Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk Not 20V there isn't a 20V ac on your multimeter. There is 200 and 600 V.Yes that's what I meant just a mistype.Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk No, you were using DC. You need AC. Look: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mother's corpse Posted March 22, 2016 Author Share Posted March 22, 2016 (edited) That's DC, and that multimeter can handle AC frequencies between 40and 100Hz: Set the multimeter on 20V~, and send an 80Hz or so test tone through. Nothing shows up when it's on 20v and i play a 80hz or any other tone.Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk Not 20V there isn't a 20V ac on your multimeter. There is 200 and 600 V.Yes that's what I meant just a mistype.Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk No, you were using DC. You need AC. Look: dam i had no clue that was the way it worked[emoji20] well let's do this again. EDIT - nothing with the correct settings. Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk Edited March 22, 2016 by MrGrey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 HAHA I know. I was sick this morning and I typed 20V~. By the time I looked at the thread again it all went to hell. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max2 Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 That's weird. I'm guessing you have already tried a different AVR or power source and ruled out speaker issues by swapping them? If not, I would be hoping the channel separation or crosstalk is a good bit off on the unit. Is there a speaker setup on the AVR that will send out the same level signal to each speaker?This is the only avr i have. And i swapped the speakers around. I have the sony STR-DH550.Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk If you're near AR I have an Sony AVR I would give you. Unfortunately I'm in NYSent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk Trust me, it wouldn't be doing you a favor, but you may be able to see how much it is off. Im looking for a reason to replace it, but more important things are in front of it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusaDude Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 All of those frequency graphs look fine... The 5 channels' response played through Speaker 1 looks just like the 5 channels' response through Speaker 2. Meaning each amp channel is generating the same frequency response through each speaker. The woofer differences are within about 0.4 dB or less. And I don't see the 3dB difference at 70Hz you originally measured,or 3dB difference anywhere else. The bigger differences way down low are replicated in each speaker. That's probably the room. The only real difference being at the upper end above 13KHz... and you said that was just in the surround channels and it looks like it's just 1 dB. That could be a difference in the amp due to the power supply. But I bet you can't hear it. I don't think there's anything wrong with your AVR's amp section or channel levels. Or anything that would be outside of normal variances. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 (edited) What you say would seem to be true, but with those bands so close together, it's tough to tell colors and channels. It would have been more useful with the following high and low db: 105-115 on the higher frequencies 85-110 low frequencies And if you would have used all green tones on the left and all reds on the right. If it is what it looks like, then the left speaker is about 3db more efficient than the right speaker at every frequency. Wouldn't an efficiency issue be bass or higher frequencies and not across the frequency range? Did you use the exact speaker wire to run all 20 sweeps? If so, and if GPB is right, then the problem would most likely be at the speaker terminals on the right speaker. Edited March 22, 2016 by mustang guy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mother's corpse Posted March 22, 2016 Author Share Posted March 22, 2016 What you say would seem to be true, but with those bands so close together, it's tough to tell colors and channels. It would have been more useful with the following high and low db: 105-115 on the higher frequencies 85-110 low frequencies And if you would have used all green tones on the left and all reds on the right. If it is what it looks like, then the left speaker is about 3db more efficient than the right speaker at every frequency. Wouldn't an efficiency issue be bass or higher frequencies and not across the frequency range? Did you use the exact speaker wire to run all 20 sweeps? If so, and if GPB is right, then the problem would most likely be at the speaker terminals on the right speaker. Same connectors were used. Would you like me to color code them and upload again so it can be easily seen? Also should i inspect the each speaker terminals by opening it up? Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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