InVeNtOr Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 hey dude's and dudetts, i'm helping someone build an amazing HT room and so far, cost doesn't seem to be an issue.... we met because he purchased my RS42's (modified) and we have been chatting ever since. if you can believe it, he's building TWO home theater rooms! 1 is a dedicated HT room, the other is a living room HT. this is all in his 2500sqft+ basement, and not in the actual 3900sqft+ house! anyways...so he's getting RF7ii, RC64ii, and we are kicking around the idea of putting the 4 RS42 speakers for the surrounds, 1 at each row of seats. i know we can splice the input wire and mount the speakers and i know sound will emit from them, but has anyone tried this and did it sound good? or is this just a really dumb idea and we just use 2 speakers and mount them between the row of seats? the thought is to have it more like a theater room like the movies. oh, in case the info is needed.... the other items in the main HT: XMC-1 (with HDMI board upgrade) XPA Gen3 (7 channel) Oppo 103D darbee edition Furman 20PFi (he has 4 dedicated 20 amp power lines as well) no decision on sub. he's building a sound stage and it almost looks like the space for the sub is too small, but i haven't physically been in the room. he's also in the middle of building it, well all of it. along with a Pinball room! i asked to move in! lmao! he also wants all custom power cables and interconnects. we will do that after all gear is in and working. i'll also be programing his remote and room automation. i'm hoping this is a super clean well done job. i've never been a big fan of 7 amps and a bunch of other gear, not that i would ever tell anyone it sucks or they were "dumb", just not my thing. i like less wires and cables (i know OCD weird issues). oh yeah, both sets of speakers will be fully upgraded! so, if someone has done this and knows the pit falls, please let me know. i'm open to any equipment suggestions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappydue Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Do the guy a favor and talk him into a third rf-7ii and ditch the rc-64ii. Can't comment on the surrounds. I do have two rows and I never thought it was a problem having a wdst style speaker in between the two rows. Don't know anything about splicing and getting them to play the same Content. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusaDude Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 (edited) Just a guess, though you could wire it up and probably make it work... I'd think that sending a single side surround signal/channel to two side speakers MAY cause phase/cancelation problems. And I'd wonder how you would run the Dirac setup, since the microphone would be "hearing" the same signal from two different places. Again, I'd think it MAY cause some weird EQ or phase issues. Since the XMC-1 is a 7.2 processor, why not use a pair of the RS42's as side surrounds and the other pair as rear surrounds? Edited July 12, 2016 by GPBusa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InVeNtOr Posted July 12, 2016 Author Share Posted July 12, 2016 ok...so using RS62ii as rears.... spoke to some pro's, the proper way to do it is.... have each side surround separately amped. so in this case, the XMC will have a XPA amp for the front 3, and rear 2. then a A500 (5 channel amp) to power just the 4 surrounds. i'll run a Blue Jeans Y cables from the XMC side surround input to each of the amp channels. then of course, each amp channel will have it's own speaker wire. this way there won't be any issues with resistance. having phase or eq problems, that's a different story. it's only a 14x20 HT room so the "need" for 4 side surrounds is really not there. i think this is more of a "want" or a "could we" situation. the way he built this massive ET center, no joy for a front RF7 center speaker. maybe if i was there from the beginning we could have toyed with having a vertical RF7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 If he hasn't started building the HT room yet, you might have him look into a acoustically transparent screen. You can have a much larger screen that way, and you can have the LCR be identical like in the movie theaters and like Scrappy was saying. If you haven't already, you should check out Youthman's build. It is an excellent example of what I was just talking about. By the looks of things, this would be very doable for your buddy. https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/151408-youthmans-lascala-trio-home-theater-build-version-20-begins/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Here is a nice video of the entire system he has: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InVeNtOr Posted July 20, 2016 Author Share Posted July 20, 2016 nice video. him and i were talking about this just yesterday. he already has the RF7II, RC64II and the new ET center is already being built. he was thinking of ditching the idea of a 90" tv (yeah, it's already picked out with a $11K price tag) and going with a projector. i just sent him an email with this video, a few comments, and a suggestion of maybe just having the RC64II behind the screen. we could possibly put the subs i'm having Jason STR make. we ordered those a few days ago. 15", external amp bad mammer jammers! he is having a large lower section built (think of a normal stage shape) where the subs will go under neath and be hidden by speaker grill material. here is a drawing he doodled. his gear will be located in a different room so basically where the subs are, it's just open. maybe after we get everything in the room he will add shelves or something. if Brian actually wants a projector and screen i'm going to have to get back on here and ask for suggestions. projector screens is something i just never got into. i liked them and thought they were cool, but cost wise, just not in the cards for me. the last time i looked it up, it was $10K for a quality projector and a very good screen. i'm not even talking about a diamond screen, just a normal good one. i have no idea how much acoustic transparent screens are. do projectors have the ability to cast a 4K image? i can see i'm going to have to hit Google up and find out.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Side surround or to many speakers kill channel separation and you end up with less of an immersive HT. Two surrounds are enough. Check out Elite screens. Ditching the TV is the right way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InVeNtOr Posted July 20, 2016 Author Share Posted July 20, 2016 well, he want's 2 side surrounds and is willing to buy the amp and cables to do it. he figured to go ahead and try it and see if it works. if not, we just ditch the extra set and have an extra amp. really not a big deal. Elite screens? are they acoustic transparent? checking with google now.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InVeNtOr Posted July 20, 2016 Author Share Posted July 20, 2016 AcousticPro UHD (not sure on price) Sony VPLVW350ES $7998.00 this is what i found so far. this dude doesn't mess around. he wants typically the best or at least the best idea. that projector is the top rated one. it's actually much cheaper too. go figure, the best being affordable? looking up the UHD screen, amazon has it for $600. that plus the projector is much cheaper than $11K. it's a 125" screen, not sure the size possible. who know about this stuff? like who's world does this revolve around? i don't want to suggest something that is just silly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 nice video. him and i were talking about this just yesterday. he already has the RF7II, RC64II and the new ET center is already being built. he was thinking of ditching the idea of a 90" tv (yeah, it's already picked out with a $11K price tag) and going with a projector. i just sent him an email with this video, a few comments, and a suggestion of maybe just having the RC64II behind the screen. we could possibly put the subs i'm having Jason STR make. we ordered those a few days ago. 15", external amp bad mammer jammers! he is having a large lower section built (think of a normal stage shape) where the subs will go under neath and be hidden by speaker grill material. here is a drawing he doodled. his gear will be located in a different room so basically where the subs are, it's just open. maybe after we get everything in the room he will add shelves or something. if Brian actually wants a projector and screen i'm going to have to get back on here and ask for suggestions. projector screens is something i just never got into. i liked them and thought they were cool, but cost wise, just not in the cards for me. the last time i looked it up, it was $10K for a quality projector and a very good screen. i'm not even talking about a diamond screen, just a normal good one. i have no idea how much acoustic transparent screens are. do projectors have the ability to cast a 4K image? i can see i'm going to have to hit Google up and find out.... If you haven't heard it yet, let me be the first to say it. Bigger is better with screens. One thing I haven't seen in a dedicated HT is a normal TV like the monster 90" hanging on the wall, but a nice 150" motorized projector screen when you want the immersive, lights off experience. Perhaps you all could be the first, especially if you get an AP screen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 We were typing at the same time I think. I don't think buying a 4K is a good investment. Prices are going to plummet in the next couple years. The best places on the web for projector info are Projector Central and the AVS Forums. Visual Apex is my preferred online projector retailer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 (edited) AcousticPro UHD (not sure on price) Sony VPLVW350ES $7998.00 this is what i found so far. this dude doesn't mess around. he wants typically the best or at least the best idea. that projector is the top rated one. it's actually much cheaper too. go figure, the best being affordable? looking up the UHD screen, amazon has it for $600. that plus the projector is much cheaper than $11K. it's a 125" screen, not sure the size possible. who know about this stuff? like who's world does this revolve around? i don't want to suggest something that is just silly. That is a nice screen. The projector has the biggest impact on PQ. I would love to compare that projector to mines. Just to see what $7000 more will get you, lol. Spending big money is not a gurantee of the best. A lot of Klipschster know that. Edited July 20, 2016 by derrickdj1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InVeNtOr Posted July 20, 2016 Author Share Posted July 20, 2016 (edited) ok, if you let me be lazy....which projector is the one most chosen? i picked that Sony solely based on it was the #1 reviewed one, or at least was #1 out of 10. so why would 4K be bad? like i said, zero experience with projectors. i thought if you projected a 1080P image on a 125" - 150" screen, then it won't be as clear. kind of like a TV, a 60" at 1080P looks ok, at 4K it's amazing. a 70" at 1080p is garbage, but at 4K, it's a real nice picture. i take it projectors don't have that same issue? i guess the good think about buying 1080P now, and 4K later, those are easy to swap out, and it was said, the drop in price. Edited July 20, 2016 by InVeNtOr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InVeNtOr Posted July 20, 2016 Author Share Posted July 20, 2016 so, on that web site...Panasonic PT-AE8000 is the 2015 editors choice. would that be a safe bet? right now i don't understand the specs... Lumens: is brighter better (always) Contrast: bigger is better (always) technology: 0.7"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappydue Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Is buying some big horn loaded subs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InVeNtOr Posted July 20, 2016 Author Share Posted July 20, 2016 no. Jason said they will look similar to Klipsch THX subs and the port will be on the bottom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 ok, if you let me be lazy....which projector is the one most chosen? i picked that Sony solely based on it was the #1 reviewed one, or at least was #1 out of 10. so why would 4K be bad? like i said, zero experience with projectors. i thought if you projected a 1080P image on a 125" - 150" screen, then it won't be as clear. kind of like a TV, a 60" at 1080P looks ok, at 4K it's amazing. a 70" at 1080p is garbage, but at 4K, it's a real nice picture. i take it projectors don't have that same issue? i guess the good think about buying 1080P now, and 4K later, those are easy to swap out, and it was said, the drop in price. 4K isn't bad, It's purely cost that turns me off. Are there 4K sources available now? For a long time you could have 4K but there wasn't anything you could play on it. I think that Sony has been out for a few years. Once people start making blurrays or whatever that are encoded with 4K you will see more manufacturers make more and prices will go down. You should get the $11,000 90" TV for using when the lights are on, and get the 4K projector and a motorized 200" screen to go down in front of the tiny 90" when you watch movies. I don't think anybody else has a 4K LCD behind a 4K drop down screen. Not that I know of anyway. If you do this, please start a thread. I would love to see that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusaDude Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 so, on that web site...Panasonic PT-AE8000 is the 2015 editors choice. would that be a safe bet? right now i don't understand the specs... Lumens: is brighter better (always) Contrast: bigger is better (always) technology: 0.7"? Black level and contrast are quite important... Lumens is, but less so unless the projector will be used in a room that isn't completely dark. Any type of ambient light in a room will really wash out (reduce the contrast) of a projector's image. The 0.7“ is the chip size in the projector. Regarding the 4K vs 1080P question... On a 60"-80" screen you can't tell the difference at normal viewing distances. Just look at the basic math... If you divide an 80" screen width (horizontal not diagonal) by the 1920 horizontal pixels, each pixel will look 0.042" wide. How close do you need to be to see 4 hundredths of an inch? An 80" screen displaying 4K UHD (3840 horizontal pixels) is half the width... 0.021". Even on a 150" screen, each of the 1920 horizontal pixels will only appear to be 0.078". So you need to sit very close to, or have a very large screen, to see the pixel width of even a 1080P image. If he wants 4K, then buy it. But you won't gain any real increase in clarity/resolution unless he's sitting just a couple feet away. For home use 4K is really overkill unless you've got the room/money to have a projector screen bigger than 12' wide or so. There are lots.of articles and distance calculators out there discussing the subject, and whether 4K provides any real improvement at normal seating distances in a home environment. http://referencehometheater.com/2013/commentary/4k-calculator/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InVeNtOr Posted July 21, 2016 Author Share Posted July 21, 2016 thanks! that helps out! he's made the decision to get a projector and screen. he laughed at me when i suggested a home made screen....basically he said with a 100K HT, why cheap out on the screen....lol. so what he is going to do is go with a fixed screen, keep the RF7II's and RC64II out in the open along with the subs below the stage. he just changed the ET center (again) and doesn't want to get another huge bill (at least not right now). my suggestion was to have the screen acoustic transparent and have the 64 and both subs behind it with the 7's out. i haven't heard back from him if the projector can be mounted outside the room (like a movie theater) or if we have to hang it. i know depending on location it will change the projector up (i think). i believe i would have to go to a "short throw" if we hang it. i don't have all the numbers so right now i'm just guessing. since i'm a wire rat, what's making me pull my hair out is he has a separate room for the gear, which is cool, but it's not located in the front or back. it's off to the side. what i don't like about that, it increases all the wire lengths, which can cause a headache! ok, i'm whining a bit there, it's really not a big deal, it has more to do with my personal OCD's. does anyone have a suggestion on a fixed screen and a 1080P projector? i found one for $1700 that seems bad a** (link above). oh, this is a basement (granted it's a 2600sqft basement) so no issues with windows or lights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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