InventiveAudio.com Posted September 5, 2002 Share Posted September 5, 2002 Hi, I'm in the market for a projection set. I took a look and like the Mitsubishi and Toshiba sets. The new plasma sets have incredible pictures but are way to pricey right now and don't want to wait for prices to drop. Anyway, I notice that most companies are mostly selling widescreen TV's with only one or two standard 4:3 TV's in their lineup. I believe Pioneer ELite doesn't even sell a 4:3 set. I'm getting Direct TV and they only have 2-4 channels that are broadcast in HDTV. Some of the network stations have limited HDTV broadcasts but apparently the satellite companies do not offer them. You have to use an outside atenna. I read that by the year 2006 all broadcasts must be digital. Digital doesn't mean HD. I would say that only 10% of my time is used for watching DVD's and movies. So why would I want a widescreen TV? I'm also wondering if it's worth 500-700.00 extra for HDTV but I think I want it anyway. I would love to hear opinions on this debate. It just seems to make more sense to get a 4:3 setup now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted September 5, 2002 Share Posted September 5, 2002 go to my site, soundwise.org and to the rigs section and then to my rigs. i hve two MITS HDTV's, 46" and 55". They rock! the 55" is worth the extra for a bigger screen for sure. ------------------ -justin SoundWise promediatech@Klipsch.com /1-888-554-5665 - RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5s> Email Me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cardinal Posted September 5, 2002 Share Posted September 5, 2002 I went through this same thing at the start of the year. Plasma is very cool, but in addition to price, there are still some technical issues to be worked out to prevent burn-in problems and the like. Regarding widescreen vs full screen, it's strictly a personal preference, and 4:3 MAY be the way to go for you. For reference, however, I'm now using my widescreen Toshiba for DVDs about 30% of the time (more than I had anticipated), and I think we're seeing more widescreen sales because widescreen home theatre is where your system will shine best. Plus, this being a significant investment, definitely consider likely viewing habits even beyond 2006 (which is barely three years off). Lastly, I'd like to add that Toshiba currently has the best expanded viewing modes. I was EXTREMELY concerned about spending a lot of money only to be forced to watch distorted images most of the time. Toshiba's fill mode is excellent, and I rarely notice it during network TV viewing, so it's really the best of both world's. Best of luck with your decision! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krusty46 Posted September 5, 2002 Share Posted September 5, 2002 I had this same problem about 2 years ago when I bought my TV. I figured I watch TV most of the time, and it would've driven my wife crazy to watch regular TV with black bars on the sides of the screen than to watch an occasional movie with black bars. Needless to say, I bought a 4:3 TV. I do not regret my decision, but at the time I knew I would have 5 years of normal TV viewing. How much longer after that could I expect to get from the TV anyway before it breaks, another 3-5 years? For someone buying a new TV now, you will only have about 3 years before we go totally digital. So you would have to deal with black bars for the next 3 years and after that it would be clear sailing. Do you wanna spend that much money on a TV and not be prepared for the future? You will most likely own the TV a lot longer than 3 years. Think long term. Plus as each year goes by, more and more HD programming will be added. I bought a 36' Sony that is HD upgradable. Picture is great. But its noy a bigscreen TV and I have some flexability on where I can place it down the road when I buy my 65' Pioneer Elite or Mitsubishi. I can always use it in my bedroom. Finding a spot for a bigscreen down the road, when you are itching to get a new TV because everything is widescreen, will be more difficult. And whatever you buy, I would definately make sure its digital now. You'll get a better picture now, even if you don't watch HD programming. Most digital TV's up convert regualr programming so that they will look a little better. Good Luck. Let us know what you did. ------------------ Mains: KLF 10's Center: RC-3 (I know--doesn't match mains) Surrounds: Quintets Receiver: Denon 3802 DVD: Denon DVD-900 TV: Sony 36XBR400 VCR: Mitsubishi HS-U48 LaserDisc: Pioneer D605 MIT T2 and T3cables throughout Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avman Posted September 5, 2002 Share Posted September 5, 2002 4:3 was my choice for screen and tv,because although i've got 4-5 hd channels, and i get widescreen dvd's whenever possible,STILL over HALF of what appears on my displays is 4:3, and the 'morphing' of 4:3 to fill 16:9 is unacceptable compared to the horizontal bands on widescreen displayed on my 4:3 screens. btw-you can STILL get horizontal bands on a widescreen tv. avman. ------------------ 1-pair klf 30's c-7 center (looking for 1-m.o.klf-20) ksps-6 surrounds RSW-15 sony strda-777ES receiver upgraded to v.2.02 including virtual matrix 6.1 sony playstation 2 sony dvpnc 650-v 5-disc dvd/cd/SACD changer dishnetwork model 6000 HD sat rcvr w/digital off-air tuner jvc s-vhs-et hi-fi stereo vcr sony kv36xbr450 high-definition 4:3 tv sharp xv-z1u lcd projector w/84" 4:3 sharp screen Bello'international Italian-made a/v furniture panamax max dbs+5 surge protector/power conditioner monster cable and nxg interconnects/12 gua.speaker wire Natuzzi red leather furniture set KLIPSCH-So Good It Hz! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skonopa Posted September 5, 2002 Share Posted September 5, 2002 I am still plugging along with my 32 inch Sharp. I don't plan on upgrading that until at least 2006, since the TV is only about 3 years old now. When everything does indeed go all digital, then I'll start shopping around for a new big screen Digital TV. Hopefully by then, the newer Plasma/LCD screens will be cheaper and better. ------------------ Steven Konopa Fredericksburg, VA Denon AVR3802 (Receiver) RF-7 (Fronts) RC-7 (Center) RC-7 (Rear) RS-7 (A Surrounds) Infinity RS2000.5 (B Surrounds - recycled) REL Storm III (Subwoofer 1) Yamaha YST-SW40 (Subwoofer 2 - Recycled) JVC XV-S65GD (DVD) Sharp DX-200 (CD - ancient) RCA DWD490RE (DirecTV/Ultimate TV receiver) Sharp 32 inch (TV) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagnumMan Posted September 6, 2002 Share Posted September 6, 2002 I personally recommend a widescreen HD-Ready set. I agree with cardinal on this. You get the best of both worlds. When HDTV becomes readily available, all you need is a setup box. I have the 42" TheaterWide Toshiba and love it! For tv broadcasting,I set it to FULL mode and it looks fine. Doesn't look distorted at all. The set has 5 pic-size modes: Normal, (3) Widescreen, and Full. I've had a lot of experience with Toshiba sets and would not switch for anything. With certain dvds,the picture is incredible! It's hard to believe it is a projection set. Also, the pricing is really good. Why pay big $ now and then when HDTV is common place, shell out more for another set? I know HDTV won't be common for awhile yet,but with the life span of the sets nowadays, that is nothing to worry about. And finally, the looks of a widescreen set. IMHO, I think they are gorgeous to look at. They are so exoctic looking. Makes you feel special to have something like it in your home! ------------------ Jerry CP RULZ ------------ Mains: KLF 30 Rears: KG 5.5 Center: KLF-C7 Subs: (2) Antique wooden coffins with (3) 12" Advents in each Receiver: HK AVR-80 DD Processor: HK ADP-303 DTS Processor: Rotel RDA 985 AudioControl Phase Coupled Activator Series Three TV: Toshiba 42H81 42" Theaterwide DVD: Toshiba 4109X Laserdisc: Yamaha CDV-W901 5 CH Amp(for speakers): Rotel RMB-1095 5 CH Amp(for subs): Rotel RB-985 Single Cass Deck: HK TD-420 Dual Cass Deck: HK DC-520 This message has been edited by MagnumMan on 09-06-2002 at 12:35 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InventiveAudio.com Posted September 6, 2002 Author Share Posted September 6, 2002 HDTV could be 10 years off. Who knows. The head of the FCC left and a new guy came in who loosened the restrictions to go digital to broadcasters. Even if broadcasters all go digital there is no guarantee that they will also broadcast in HDTV. Content makers are worried about piracy too so they are talking about a new conection that will keep pirates from stealing their work. If you set doesn't have it I'm not sure what the work around will be, if anything. With a standard set you can still watch widescreen with bars and the picture realestate will be the same if the standard set is the same size as the WS set. 99% of the programming is in standard. Most people have standard sets only 1% have HDTV's. This is new teritory. I still haven't heard one good reason to get a widescreen other then they look cool. Common sense dictates that you buy a set for the 99% of the programming that is now available. Who knows what the future holds. Either way it's a gamble. Even DVD's aren't all true 16:9. This whole thing is a fiasco. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cardinal Posted September 6, 2002 Share Posted September 6, 2002 Sounds like you already made up your mind! Opinions on this will be divided for many years to come - great picture quality is the big issue, and screen format is really secondary. Best of luck with your upcoming 4:3 set purchase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quenten Posted September 6, 2002 Share Posted September 6, 2002 Yes, I agree that HDTV is going to be a long way off. It costs money to deliver & we all know $'s drive the world! But realize you will be able to do more than just watch TV. If you have children (kind of a big kid myself), they are going to be using the internet (much educational stuff there), sure is nice to surf on a big screen! And then there is gaming, like with the X-BOX (supports DD 5.1--intractive & live on line). With this is mind (& that more stuff will be availabe soon that we don't even know about) I bet you'll be using your TV for more than you aniticipate. And remember also that most nice HDTV's upscale regular broadcasts so that you get almost HD quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krusty46 Posted September 6, 2002 Share Posted September 6, 2002 Your right, its a huge gamble. I still know I will get screwed in the end for being one of the early adopters of HDTV. If you do go against your better judgement and get a widescreen TV, maybe you should go with a Mitsubishi. I only hear goods things about them from people on this board and I heard something about all their TV's are "future upgradable" if the formats change, for I think its 5 years after you purchase the TV. I swear by the older Mitsubishi products I own (TV and VCR). The Eclipse I had is another story :-( It does pain me though everytime I watch an animorphic DVD and I'm looking at black bars. I know even though I have a 36' TV, I'm only enjoying 34' or even 32' of it. But for pretty much the same reasons you gave, I went 4:3 and am very happy with normal TV viewing. ------------------ Mains: KLF 10's Center: RC-3 (I know--doesn't match mains) Surrounds: Quintets Receiver: Denon 3802 DVD: Denon DVD-900 TV: Sony 36XBR400 VCR: Mitsubishi HS-U48 LaserDisc: Pioneer D605 MIT T2 and T3cables throughout This message has been edited by krusty46 on 09-06-2002 at 11:59 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted September 6, 2002 Share Posted September 6, 2002 Yes. MITS TV's are "future proof". Their internal parts like the board and consoles are upgradeable. When new techonology comes out, say 1080i is replace with 2160p, you will be able to get a new console put in for a few hundred bucks approx. you can allready buy the i.EEE 1394 consoles. you are good till at least 2008 they say with the upgrades till you will have to get a new tv, that is quite a ways off ------------------ -justin SoundWise promediatech@Klipsch.com /1-888-554-5665 - RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5s> Email Me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerSix Posted September 6, 2002 Share Posted September 6, 2002 Trader, My feeling is that existing 4:3 televisions are on their way out. The only question is when? As others have already stated, the deadline target date of 2006 is currently set for all broadcasters to change over existing analog signals to digital. Undoubtedly, many broadcasters will drag their feet and request exemptions to this deadline. However, with the dramatic decrease in prices of HD televisions and the increasing number of customers (~ 3 million) that are jumping on the HD bandwagon it will be just a matter of time before its economically a bad move for broadcasters to not meet the established FCC timeline. You are partially correct in saying that Digital is not HD, but I believe most, if not all, broadcasters will transmit is some form of HD. Some broadcasters will skirt the issue by broadcasting in 480p hardly HD, but still technically within the FCC parameters. Most will however transmit in either 720p or 1080i. Other things to consider (many of which have already been brought up). First, digital technology is going through significant copy-protection issues between the MPAA/RIAA and the consumer electronics industry. These issues may have significant consequences for existing owners of HD televisions should the MPAA get their way. In very general terms, there are two competing camps regarding digital connections DVI and IEEE (Firewire). DVI is favored by the studios because of its one-way digital connection that prevents consumers from making archival copies of television broadcasts. While protecting Hollywood from intellectual property theft, the disadvantages are pretty draconian for consumers with DVI. DVI also has the potential to downrez existing HD sets (not equipped with DVI inputs) to 480p. IEEE on the other hand is a two-way digital connection that also uses a form a copy-protection. Despite having HAVi copy-protection protocols, Hollywood is not embracing Firewire because of its two-way connectivity. IEEE is generally better for consumers because it allows POTENTIAL recording (time-shifting) of television broadcasts. IEEE is also advantageous because of its ability to daisy-chain home entertain components together and reduce the amount of cables/connections. Anyway, I could go on, but the reality is that the future is not set on how the digital connection will be implemented. It may take years before they get it all sorted out. So back to your original question - Is it worth it to go digital/HD? Well I guess it depends on how much TV you intend to watch and how much you are willing to spend. If your TV viewing is limited to existing 4:3 programming then I would suggest that you get a cheap interlaced TV something that you wont regret saying goodbye to in four or five years. If you will enjoy watching limited HD programming and DVDs/movies (more than 10%) then go HD. I had my HDTV for almost a year and havent regretted one second of it. Saddled with a great set of Klipschs and a good subwoofer it has transformed the way I watch TV and listen to music. ------------------ Ranger "honesta mors turpi vita potior" Mitsubishi WS65819 Denon AVR 4802 Denon DVD-1600 Denon DCM-370 Sony SCD-CE775 SACD Klipsch RF3II (Mains) Klipsch RC3II (Center) Klipsch RS3II (Surround) SVS 20-39 PCi (Sub) ProntoPro TSU6000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Webmaster Posted September 6, 2002 Share Posted September 6, 2002 I just purchased a 55" Widescreen Mitsubishi this week based on everything I've read on these forums (thanks by the way) and I'm very happy with it so far. As far as HDTV goes, even though the digital deadline isn't until 2006, most of the major networks are already broadcasting their 2002-2003 season primetime shows and tv movies in HD. HBO and Showtime both have one HD channel as well and a lot of cable networks are starting to do the same thing (i.e. Discovery Channel). I think there will be enough early adopters to justify the purchase of a Widescreen HDTV capable tv. I'm not hooked up yet, but I probably will do that soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dafishguy Posted September 6, 2002 Share Posted September 6, 2002 I LOVE MY WIDESCREEN TELEVISIONS. I would never go back to 4:3. I just bought a Sony KV34XBR800 Widescreen set for my bedroom with HD satellite and DVD for when me and the Mrs. watch Jay Leno in HDTV. The DVD's for the Mrs. to watch her movies when I'm blasting Blade or LotR's in the main theatre. No surround system yet but Sony sure has a neat matrix system called Tru-Surround that makes you think you have speakers in the back. Pretty cool stuff. My bedroom system will never hold a candle to the audio performance I get in my main theatre but who wants 116+ db when you're tring to sleep. We watch 50% Widescreen DVD, 20% Widescreen HDTV, 10% 4:3 DVD stretched to wide zoom and 20% normal TV stretched to wide zoom. (We never watch 4:3 anymore). As for having black bars on the top and bottom on a 16x9, you may get them with a 235:1 superwide movie, but I'm still using most of my screen compared to a 4:3 set that only uses half. I know because before I had Widescreen, I had a 50" 4:3 Hitachi Ultra Vision and it use to make me mad that only half the screen got used. The movies still looked small on this set even though I had a very large screen as was preceived in the TV industry back in 1992. The movies easily look twice as big on my 57" widescreen then they did on my 4:3 Hitachi. This debate will rage until all tv programming is HDTV 16x9 then everyone will have a widescreen tv. Until then, I'll enjoy my widescreen HDTV's with DVD's, HDTV and standard 4:3 stuff that fills the screen and looks fantastic. Just my opinion. Take care and enjoy whatever set you happen to own. Rick ------------------ Mains RF-7 Centre RC-7 Surrounds RS-7 Rear Centre 2 x RS-7 Sub SVS-CS Ultra x 2 Receiver Denon AVR-5803 DVD Denon 2800 T.V. Sony KP57HW40 Widescreen Computer Pro-Media 5.1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InventiveAudio.com Posted September 6, 2002 Author Share Posted September 6, 2002 I'm a bit confused. Why would a widescreen DVD look smaller on a 4:3 set that has the same horizontal measurement as a similiar WS set? WOuldn't the only difference be the black lines? Should I buy a Toshiba or Mitsubishi? I thought both sets had a great picture when I viewed them at the Whiz. Mitsubushi guarantees future upgrades but at what cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krusty46 Posted September 6, 2002 Share Posted September 6, 2002 As previously mentioned, Mitsubishi will upgrade at an expected cost of a couple hundred dollars--but isnt the fact that you can upgrade at all as opposed to being out of luck worth something? That alone would be reason enough to get the Mitsu, unless the picture on it was just so bad (but its not). PS: Go to the Wiz soon--they start the actual closing this Sunday!! ------------------ Mains: KLF 10's Center: RC-3 (I know--doesn't match mains) Surrounds: Quintets Receiver: Denon 3802 DVD: Denon DVD-900 TV: Sony 36XBR400 VCR: Mitsubishi HS-U48 LaserDisc: Pioneer D605 MIT T2 and T3cables throughout This message has been edited by krusty46 on 09-06-2002 at 08:05 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InventiveAudio.com Posted September 6, 2002 Author Share Posted September 6, 2002 Krusty, Mitsubishi guarantees that they will upgrade the HDTV upgradeable TV's (not all their HDTV's just diamond and platinum series)for a reasonable cost. What is reasonable to me might not be reasonable to u. Especially if they are using the MSRP as the jumping off point. They promise to offer an off-air tuner, an IEEE 1394 connection or other copy protection devices. I have a feeling that the box makers will offer some kind of work around for those who already have HDTV. Who knows what will happen. I guess this is some assurance. The Toshiba, I believe, has the better picture. But the Mitsubishi is very good too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerSix Posted September 6, 2002 Share Posted September 6, 2002 quote: I still haven't heard one good reason to get a widescreen other then they look cool. If by cool you mean enjoying watching movies and television programming at a higher resolution, improved sharpness and clarity, and at the correct aspect ratio as the director originally intended, then yep, thats pretty much why I got my HDTV. quote: Common sense dictates that you buy a set for the 99% of the programming that is now available. Under most circumstances that logic might hold up, but common sense should also anticipate for the future. In the next few years you are going to see a dramatic shift in that percentage swing the other way. quote: Who knows what the future holds. Very true, but the future will always change. At some point you have got to ask yourself How long am I going to sit on the sideline and wait for that next model/upgrade/gadget to come out? There will always be something looming in the horizon or something better right around the corner. Determine what your needs are how much youre willing to spend and what products meet your established criteria then cross the LD and dont look back. As long as you do your homework and resist the urge to impulse buy, in most cases you will not regret your purchase. quote: Even DVD's aren't all true 16:9. Few DVDs are 16:9 (1.78 ratio). The reason for the new 16:9 format was to accommodate the different aspect ratios the TV would need to display. The majority of movies are shot in either 1.85 or 2.35, plus with the addition of existing 4:3 material; the decision to go 16:9 was one of compromise. Unless there is a television in the future that will magically morph itself to the correct aspect ratio of what ever youre watching, there will never be a television display that will allow you to eat your cake and have it too (meaning - no black bars). quote: I'm a bit confused. Why would a widescreen DVD look smaller on a 4:3 set that has the same horizontal measurement as a similiar WS set? WOuldn't the only difference be the black lines? Yes, its somewhat of an optical illusion. The boxy appearance of the 4:3 TV will give the illusion of making the widescreen image appear smaller than that same image on a 16:9 set. quote: Mitsubishi will upgrade at an expected cost of a couple hundred dollars Actually, its a tad bit more. Expected upgrade/installation cost of the Promise Module will be approximately $1000. ------------------ Ranger "honesta mors turpi vita potior" Mitsubishi WS65819 Denon AVR 4802 Denon DVD-1600 Denon DCM-370 Sony SCD-CE775 SACD Klipsch RF3II (Mains) Klipsch RC3II (Center) Klipsch RS3II (Surround) SVS 20-39 PCi (Sub) ProntoPro TSU6000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krusty46 Posted September 6, 2002 Share Posted September 6, 2002 OUCH! A Thousand dollars! I didnt think it would be that much. Good thing I decide to fence sit and get my HD Sony. I didn't break the bank, I can enjoy my 4:3 TV programs and still enjoy HDTV as more programs appear. I'll wait the 3-4 years and buy my new Mitsubishi then :-) ------------------ Mains: KLF 10's Center: RC-3 (I know--doesn't match mains) Surrounds: Quintets Receiver: Denon 3802 DVD: Denon DVD-900 TV: Sony 36XBR400 VCR: Mitsubishi HS-U48 LaserDisc: Pioneer D605 MIT T2 and T3cables throughout This message has been edited by krusty46 on 09-06-2002 at 11:07 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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