mobile homeless Posted October 11, 2002 Share Posted October 11, 2002 German Show Link: http://www.aaanalog.de/termine/aforen/aforffm/afffmmb.htm Although it is in German, take a look as some of the analog front ends in attendance at this show in Germany. What a lineup! I am kind of happy about this as many show attendees evidently stated that Progressive-Engineering's "The Table" and system was the BEST sound at the show. It definitely got many giant killer votes! Scroll down and you will see the pic of The Table below. Note all the HUGE platters at the show. Evidently, The Table and system was picked as the BEST bass foundation of the lineup, another surprise considering the more normal platter. I have The Table at home now and am still awaiting a modified arm board and the proper VTA adjustment base for the Incognito Wired Rega RB-300. Mike is really excited about the comments and we are looking for big things from this Table. I did a website and am working on doing a major update as production gets going. He has only made a handful but is ready to ramp up. kh http://www.progressive-engineering.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted October 11, 2002 Share Posted October 11, 2002 mobile-as usual, that is a great looking site! It is also a great looking table...do you have any idea of pricing that you can share? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted October 11, 2002 Share Posted October 11, 2002 Definitely some nice tables there. The V.Y.G.E.R looks interesting, as does the Tonearm Master TQ (kind of looks like the top half of a typewriter). I'm looking forward to your review of The Table when you get the new parts. How much is it again? And does the price include arm/cartridge? I can't wait until I hit the lottery. Then I can get my monoblocks, preamp and new turntable. Until then, I will have to be happy with what I have... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 11, 2002 Author Share Posted October 11, 2002 It is hard to believe how many new tables are out there, this for a medium that was supposed to be "dead" to dry up and disappear. It's a GREAT thing so much development is still going on in the vinyl replay camp as it means there will be healthy interest in keeping the medium alive. Granted, a host of these are very pricey but the development filters down to low end tables just like racing programs to every day drivers. Progressive-Engineering's offering is not exactly cheap, but it is built like the proverbial tank with solid engineering and excellent machine work. Mike was going to make a kit version but dont know where that stands. Granted, the pricing is not "cheap" per say, but surely understandable given the build. Multiple tonearms CAN be mounted on The Table. The Table - $2950.00 without tonearm The available tonearms are priced as follows: RB-250 - $325 RB-300 - $425 RB-600 - $695 RB-900 - $995 * Recommended Incognito internal wiring upgrade: $295 installed. Optional armboards include: Rega, Graham 2.2, Triplanar, SME, Schroeder, Morch. Custom armboards available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted October 12, 2002 Share Posted October 12, 2002 mobile, Thanks for the look at the show and the turntables. I was surprised not to see models by Avid, Kuzma, Basis, the Plantine Verdier by GT Audio, VPI, Recovery, as well as many other manufacturers. Europe seems to have a good handle on the idea of vinyl playback and are providing high quality hardware to handle the software. For another good look at a wide selection of great turntables, members here should take a look at the ACA site (Audiophile Club of Athens). Members of ACA are serious about vinyl playback. I definitely enjoy gazing at your PE table and wish you'd get hopping and review the turntable already.(Not that I can go out and buy it at present.) Visually, it's layout brings to mind the ClearAudio Maximum Solution minus the massive platter. Keep the turntable eye candy coming! Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 12, 2002 Author Share Posted October 12, 2002 Tell me about it! Lord! I havent even HEARD The Table yet, and it's been sitting in my house for MONTHS! I have been so busy with other things and really lame about getting the parts back out. Please come over here and knock me about the head and shoulders with any blunt object if I dont get that mess out of here by next week! If you want some more vinyl eye candy, did you happen to see this post in the Vinyl Asylum left by Rod? He took a load of pics of tables at the CES show last year. I think anyone interested would find the shots facinating. Here are the collection of turntables at the CES! Hard to believe - Take a look: CES TURNTABLE PICS http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.pl?forum=vinyl&n=103523&highlight=show+pics+rod&r=&session= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted October 12, 2002 Share Posted October 12, 2002 Hey, Kelly - I'm just curious: Have you had any problem with the terminal boards on the inside of your Moondogs coming 'unglued'? The epoxy on ALL of mine is now soft, like thick gelatin, and boards were all loose, flopping around inside -- well not folpping, but just hanging there.... I had to scrape down to bare metal, and re-epoxy all of them. I was just curious if anything like this happend to yours. I wrote Ron about this way-back-when, but you know how that story goes. Have a good weekend, and for gosh sakes, get some sleep! Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 12, 2002 Author Share Posted October 12, 2002 No, but I remember when all the mess was going on about that! AS I remember, he had a certain run of bad glue or something or other; I cant quite remember the details but it was supposedly just with a small run of the kits/and or units (then factory made as well). I think there is even mention of it in the WL Forum as well. Wasnt this you? My amps are from '97 and have the MQ DS-025 outs and have actually had not a single problem. No tubes have burned out either but I do switch the 2A3 out quite a bit. I am still on my first pair of Sovtek 2A3... Believe me, I am even surprised on that one (especially since I leave my amps ON almost 95% of the time / they havent been off in three weeks actually) - it just goes to show how well made the Sovtek are, even though they might not have the subtle intimacy of the better RCA black plates. I dont know if you remember, my amps have Tantalums resistors from Audio Note as well as more robust Solens (and a larger Cerafine). As I have the Tantalums and Copper Oil coupling caps, these amps sound like the opposite makeup of your amps with the Mylars, 5Y3 etc. I never liked the stock 6SN7s that Ron picked for the Moondogs. Wish I could hear your 45 experiment though! ps- I actually decided to leave a short post on that 45 thread... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted October 12, 2002 Share Posted October 12, 2002 cool pictures of turntables, almost like a science fiction movie from the 30s or something. "Conrad Mas of Avid with a partially disassembled Volvere. " Man that's got to hurt! All kidding aside, what is really going on with this amazing phenomenon, eg. so many exotic designs of high end turntables for a medium which the general public thinks is antiquated. {That is great for me because I am picking up vinyl as fast as they are tossing it out) 10 cents on the dollar. Either it is a very strong statement about rejecting the schlock values of all the digital plastic crap at the malls and/or there really is a substantially growing market for these things as more and more people learn to dig the sound of vinyl. It is really interesting to comtemplate. How many of these things need to sell in order for one of those companies to survive? Quartz Lock FG Servo "This is perhaps the best drive system available today. Not only is it dead accurate and stable. But the ability to correct for both static and dynamic load friction is uncanny. This, thanks to the frequency generator servo. Very few 'tables use this technology due in part to it's complexity and also patent infringement consideration. We are intimately familiar with one design the Technics SL1200 MKII. With this system, there are simply no speed variations. You can, for instance, rub your finger on the edge of the platter and the platter will hold perfect speed. We consider this to be a world class reference turntable. The economical price is misleading Since 1,000's are sold monthly worldwide. " I like a good bargain, you can get these things for under $400, That is good enough for me. Dead accurate is Dead accurate! and it sounds great to my ears. You simply cannot lump this unique engineering into the otherwise compromised box of all the other earlier direct drive systems (excepting the similarly dead accurate Rockport direct drive system essentially using the same technology). I will go for specs over impressive science fiction style anyday. The bottom line is I would rather put the extra $$$s into cool records and/or NOS tubes etc. -c7s PS, I am not really comparing the $73,000 Rockport turtable with the $400 Technics 1200 in terms of high end concerns about isolating everything from the planet in order to spin a side, I am only pointing out that they use the same direct drive system and not a belt drive system. The Technics sounds damned fine and is audiophile enough for me because I do not mind having my feet on the ground. I do not listen to music in a hermetically sealed chamber free from minute dust particles and the magnetic field from Jupiter which might influence the disc and be noticeable because I have a $300,000 system designed to make thlings like that noticeable. And I do not wear shoes which have me walking on thin air instead of the floor. As a musician with perfect pitch, I really appreciate the absolute dead on accuracy of the pitch thoughout an entire performance when I play vinyl, and I dig all the various adjustments on the Technics which allow for carefully adjusting the speed if one so desires, in case one is trying to compare a recording with an in tune piano in the house. It is a totally convenient unit, sounds as good as I would ever want, and is very practical from a price standpoint, and never has an expensive belt to track down and replace. I only say this for those others who want to jump into vinyl and have budget concerns because there are many other aspects of a system (preamp, amp, speakers, etc.) which similarly require monetary outlay. I am going to get an extra head shell or two (very inexpensive) for my Technics so I can trade cartridges around for comparison barely batting an eyelash. The only thing it don't have is snob appeal. I can deal with that in fact I dig that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted October 12, 2002 Share Posted October 12, 2002 Mobile, Yes, I say that AA thread you posted some time ago. Anything posted on turntables, I read. The ability to upgrade a table was one of the most important criteria in my TT selection and purchase which narrowed my final choices to Basis, ClearAudio, and VPI. I will be upgrading over the next few years until I at least achieve a full Aries or TNT setup. Yet, completely outside of those upgrade makers, there are incredible options for a person like myself who is committed to vinyl playback. The more, the merrier. Again, I am also amazed at the level of committment shown by ACA members to vinyl playback, something many members of this forum could take note of, not for the level of cost, but the commitment to vinyl. For those who haven't done so, take some time to wander through their site. Turntables galore. Klipsch out. PS. Erik, I have Moondogs also and have not experienced your problem. I use a pair of Belle Klipsch as part of my SET system. Too bad we don't live close enough for a 30 day speaker swap to help with your decision. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 13, 2002 Author Share Posted October 13, 2002 Jazman, I have been meaning to ask how you like that Clearaudio cartridge? I am seriously thinking of getting a stepup transformer to allow me to go to a full MC cartridge as I just think the sonics are worth it. If I can get a deal from ole MagneQuest, I might do it. I have actually never owned a full MC only doing high output MC because of the phono stages. I think it might be time to make the leap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted October 14, 2002 Share Posted October 14, 2002 http://www.high-endaudio.com/RC-Step-ups.html#Oth What do some of you all use to accomplish this step up? -c7s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted October 14, 2002 Share Posted October 14, 2002 mobile, The ClearAudio Aurum Alpha is quite impressive. The Alpha model is the lowest output of the three in the Aurum series, but the same construction as the Beta and Beta S. and I'm sure you know the progressive grading scheme of cartridge manufacturers. Harry, the owner of VPI really likes them, felt them a good match for his JMW arms, as well as having some of the moving coil attributes. The recommedation that the ClearAudio had the ability to deliver some MC attributes like accuracy and articulation, kept me from going to a HOMC design selection. It seemed very closed and a bit clinical at first, but after 60-75 hours, it makes very smooth music, nice staging, doesn't get in the way of the music with overblown highs or lows. A midrange I know you would love. It has exceeded my expectations. You can listen to vinyl with this cartridge for hours on end. I understand about going to a "full on", low output MC, and something I've considered for some time. The need for a step up transformer, it's cost, plus the cost of a very good LOMC has held me in check. Have you considered having Cary make one(step up transformer) for you to compliment your present preamp? Kirk quoted me $350 or $400 which really was not out of consideration if I had them add the phono section. My other two options were, purchase a used The Ear 834P, or have Tom Tutay make one for me. For the next 6 months to a year, I'm more likely to upgrade to the ClearAudio Aurum Beta S, or the Virtuosso cartridge, before looking for that low output moving coil of my dreams. By then hopefully I'll have enough disposable cash to properly make the plunge. I'm really interested in the path you take. I know you've got that great PE table, plus that LOMC Benz Micro waiting for you to give them a spin. Let's see if the PE will make you consider moving from the classic Linn suspension design. Inquiring minds (like mine) want to know. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted October 14, 2002 Share Posted October 14, 2002 Nice to see the acoustic solid represented. This is the machine basic - just about the smallest unit they do! Looks cool though - ah well - one day when my ship comes in... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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