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2 hours ago, EpicKlipschFan said:

 

Not sure what that even means... was just posting what an "expert" says about small drivers & burn in times related to the OP's question.  Do you have proof that tweeters need to be burned in for some magical amount of time?  

 

& heres what Bob says about capacitors,  dont shoot the messenger....

 

Q:  Do components have a break-in time?

A:  Some do and some don't.  Capacitors would be a definite NO.  Let's look at this one a bit.  

You have new good quality capacitors installed in your crossovers.  Capacitors have exactly two qualities that effect the sound of your music that goes through them.  Those are capacitance (what we use them for) and ESR.  ESR is the sum of all other qualities of a capacitor other than capacitance expressed as an Equivalent Series Resistance.  ESR is a bad thing.  Good caps have ESR so low it is barely measurable, on the order of  a couple of hundredths of an ohm.  ESR is made up of stuff like the resistance of the leads and their connections to the foil inside the capacitor or stray inductance or dielectric absorption.

So, we put our new caps in the crossovers.  These new caps are right on the capacitance value the design calls for and the ESR is almost unmeasurably low.  What exactly of these two qualities do you expect to change with break-in?  And if either of them changed, why would you expect the sound to get better since the only way they could change is to go away from the "perfect" values they had to start with?  I hope any caps you use in your crossovers are good enough that they do not change at all for many years of use.

  

 

it simply means I disagree with Bob on this topic with no attempt to shoot any messenger. I have all the proof I need how about you? What do you think what do you hear? Lots of things can be missed for a lot of reasons someone might not notice sch things. I don't need to provide you with proof you need to make your own decision. When asking such a question you will receive answers on both side of the issue and more from up on the fence (that's such a safe place to sit). It has been my experience that most folks are just too lazy to spend much if any time attempting to discover what sounds like what. ask a person to rotate a fuse or a length of coaxial cable , things that take less than a minute to do and they will argue on line forever with rational why it is a waste of time. want to know what a speaker sounds like in your system buy a pair then you will know. How did you find out which ice cream flavors you like? You tried them that's how. That way you will know. There is no destination there is only the journey. Enjoy yourself.

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21 hours ago, moray james said:

it simply means I disagree with Bob on this topic with no attempt to shoot any messenger. I have all the proof I need how about you? What do you think what do you hear? Lots of things can be missed for a lot of reasons someone might not notice sch things. I don't need to provide you with proof you need to make your own decision. When asking such a question you will receive answers on both side of the issue and more from up on the fence (that's such a safe place to sit). It has been my experience that most folks are just too lazy to spend much if any time attempting to discover what sounds like what. ask a person to rotate a fuse or a length of coaxial cable , things that take less than a minute to do and they will argue on line forever with rational why it is a waste of time. want to know what a speaker sounds like in your system buy a pair then you will know. How did you find out which ice cream flavors you like? You tried them that's how. That way you will know. There is no destination there is only the journey. Enjoy yourself.

 

thats fine if you disagree with bob, but you included me in with bob saying "we could enjoy listening to new speakers together" when all i did was post his statements about burn in of tweeters, that is called shooting the messenger...

 

i asked what proof you have about break in changing the sound of a tweeter, but based on your reply you dont have any proof,  just your subjective opinion & that you disagree with bob who does this for a living.  i have no dog in this race, just posting info for the OP on the subject.  

 

rotate a fuse???  are you implying that rotating a fuse changes the sound?  i would bet a large amount of money that you nor anyone can hear a difference by rotating a fuse in a blind test, never heard that one before... wonder what PWK would say about that???  

 

as for what i think, i side more with bobs thoughts, new speakers do sound better in the bass dept after some break in but the tweeters usually sound the same out of the box to me, aside from adjusting to the sound or compared to other speakers ive owned & listened to for years & that is mostly your ears/brain getting used to them, not the speaker physically changing. i own many different brands of speakers so am familiar with different sounds, but ive never thought i heard a physical difference in the upper mid/tweet freq after X amount of time.  same for caps, ive changed caps in many brands of speakers & to me the sound doesnt change after 1 day or a week etc.    

 

"want to know what a speaker sounds like in your system buy a pair"... again not sure what that means pertaining to this thread or my copy & pasted comments from bob about break in times, so i will leave that & the ice cream analogy alone.  carry on.    

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If rotating a fuse (I'm assuming it's not one inline with a power supply, at any rate) causes a change in sound (quality?) I'm guessing it has mostly to do with cleaning the connection points.  I'd guess the same applies to rotating(?) a length of cable as well.  I've never addressed fuses in such a manner but have twisted RCA connections back and forth every couple of years when dusting / cleaning the equipment.  Can't say I've ever noticed any changes, though...

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1 hour ago, EpicKlipschFan said:

 

thats fine if you disagree with bob, but you included me in with bob saying "we could enjoy listening to new speakers together" when all i did was post his statements about burn in of tweeters, that is called shooting the messenger..

 

   I know what bob thinks he has made his opinion(s) clear here and in many places why bother posting his opinions what are your opinions? since you post Bob's instead I take it then you believe as he does but have you bothered to find out for yourself.

 

i asked what proof you have about break in changing the sound of a tweeter, but based on your reply you don't have any proof,  just your subjective opinion & that you disagree with bob who does this for a living.  i have no dog in this race, just posting info for the OP on the subject.

 

  I told you that I owe you nothing of proof I do this for a living so what. I don't know what you do for a living but I hope you do a better job of it than you do with hifi. There is no race only learning, you do or you don't learn you experiment or you do not and it impacts me little either way but it is a good place to start.

 

rotate a fuse???  are you implying that rotating a fuse changes the sound?  i would bet a large amount of money that you nor anyone can hear a difference by rotating a fuse in a blind test, never heard that one before... wonder what PWK would say about that???  

You place a lot of weight behind what others think and what you will or will not believe. Yes fuses sound different one way or the other so do wires sometimes more sometimes less but yet it is there. Sounds to me like you are the one shooting the messenger. As for Paul I am sure he would have a good snort about it.

Quote

 

as for what i think, i side more with bobs thoughts, new speakers do sound better in the bass dept after some break in but the tweeters usually sound the same out of the box to me, aside from adjusting to the sound or compared to other speakers ive owned & listened to for years & that is mostly your ears/brain getting used to them, not the speaker physically changing. i own many different brands of speakers so am familiar with different sounds, but ive never thought i heard a physical difference in the upper mid/tweet freq after X amount of time.  same for caps, ive changed caps in many brands of speakers & to me the sound doesnt change after 1 day or a week etc.    

 

"want to know what a speaker sounds like in your system buy a pair"... again not sure what that means pertaining to this thread or my copy & pasted comments from bob about break in times, so i will leave that & the ice cream analogy alone.  carry on.    

you see you look to be one of those which I mentioned lots of time to argue no time to learn. Perhaps you don't want to know as that would complicate things? I am sure that you will carry on full steam ahead.

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1 hour ago, moray james said:

You place a lot of weight behind what others think and what you will or will not believe. Yes fuses sound different one way or the other so do wires sometimes more sometimes less but yet it is there. Sounds to me like you are the one shooting the messenger. As for Paul I am sure he would have a good snort about it.

you see you look to be one of those which I mentioned lots of time to argue no time to learn. Perhaps you don't want to know as that would complicate things? I am sure that you will carry on full steam ahead.

 

im not placing any weight on anything,  i simply copy & pasted a quote pertaining to the break in comments of the OP... YOU are the one who felt the need to argue or critique the comments & somehow threw me in with it.  i asked for PROOF of what you disagree with & you have yet to provide any...  it was a simple & genuine question, if you have any proof feel free to provide it, until then take your disagreement up with bob.  at least he provided some logical & factual based evidence of his experience with the subject.  sounds to me like you form your own opinion of things & people based on a simple quote.  if you think im shooting the messenger by copy & pasting something i cant help ya there...

 

& PWK would slap a big ol BS button on rotating fuses just like he did with speaker wire & probably break in of tweeters.  i would love to hear his input on those & some other "mods" ive seen posted on here like golf balls in the horns etc!  if you meant cleaning or breaking bad connections from years of not being touched thats one thing, but just rotating a fuse or wire is rather comical!   

 

i will end this here since you somehow spun this into me "arguing" with you by posting bobs statements... its hard to have a legitimate conversation with someone who thinks they know everything.  😐  

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On 4/8/2020 at 8:30 AM, DirtyErnie said:

Just because the computer thinks the woofers are able to dig 10Hz deeper, I wouldn't recommend going down there with crossovers if you can help it.  Glad you're enjoying the new hardware!  If you get bored, pop one of the old plastic diaphragms into one tweeter and compare with the new titanium one.  The difference won't be as subtle as you've said.

 

I typically have set the receiver LFE x-over  @ 70-80Hz making the woofers a bit more midrange.

 

I did the comparison of new vs old when I started the tweeter upgrade. I could tell there was a nice difference tho it wasn't striking. However, once I got both installed and set the system back up into "normal" mode the differences were definitely noticeable, and in a good way. So, yes, I am very much enjoying the upgrade!

 

Funny thing is that with the tinnitus I've developed in my old age (from Stones, Jethro Tull, Fleetwood Mac, etc. concerts in my younger days), I figured the subdued high end was, literally, in my head. So, being able to hear any kind of difference is greatly appreciated (and, kind of a surprise :) I am now listening to a lot of my music again and certainly noticing nuances I have not heard in a long while. Overall, I am pleased and gratified that I went for the upgrade....

 

  Cheers....

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