HDBRbuilder - question

[heresy2guy]

HDBRbuilder, I read some of your other posts and I guess you used to work at the shop in Hope, right? Tell me if I'm wrong, but with respect to the Cornawalls and Heresys, it seems like the so-called improved versions (the II models) definitely improved lower end sound with increased bass, but then they changed the midrange and tweeter too, which affected the overall sound. I know this to be true of the Heresys because I listened to both sets side by side while hooked to my Proton receiver and there was indeed a difference. The Heresy IIs had better bass and a flatter, less colored sound. The Heresys has less bass, but sounded "brighter" (whith more treble for sure!) and thus more colorful to me. After reading one of my other posts (about EQs) can you guess which one I liked better?! Yep, the original Heresy because it was much brighter! LOL

Anyway, I wonder if the same hold true for the Cornwall and Cornwall IIs, not to mention the Forte and Forte II and Chorus and Chorus II? Is the trend the same - better bass but with a "flatter" (and less bright) midrange and treble? I'd drive 100 miles to be able to hear those units, side-by-side, just so I could hear the differences. Am I crazy or what?!

[HDBRbuilder]

The changes to those two models with respect to their drivers occurred BEFORE the advent of the Heresy II and Cornwall II models in 1985...for various reasons. The K-77M replaced the K-77 when it became extrememly expensive to manufacture Alnico magnets, then the change from the K-55V to the K-55M occurred a bit later for the same reasons, then t

the woofer was procured through a different manufacturer, etc...The new models were basically a change in cabinet assembly and design with the drivers and such being mounted from the front instead from the rear...with a permanently installed back....but the driver changes had already occurred over about an seven-eight-year period beforehand. The only actual changes for the drivers/horns for the new-style cabinets in 1985 were in their horn and woofer mounting flanges, in order for them to be dropped in from the front of the cabinet instead of being installed from behind....with the exception of change-over to the plastic mid-horn lens. A change to veneered MDF also occured during that time frame...or a bit later. There is NO definite cut-off point for overall changes to the Heritage speakers, except for cabinet design changes, because there were constant changes being made over their lifetimes in driver components, horns, and crossovers....and that is STILL how it is being done!

[heresy2guy]

"The only actual changes for the drivers/horns for the new-style cabinets in 1985 were in their horn and woofer mounting flanges, in order for them to be dropped in from the front of the cabinet instead of being installed from behind....with the exception of change-over to the plastic mid-horn lens"

Wait a second - I must be missing something. According to the spec sheets, when the Heresy II came out it went from a K-55 mid (on the Heresy) to a K-53 mid (on the Heresy II) and also went from a K-77 tweeter to a K-76 tweeter. This is an obvious driver change, as stated by the specs and as seen by my eyes when comparing the two models and was heard by my ears when listening to them side by side.

The Cornwall IIs also changed drivers. The Cornwalls had a K-55 mid and a K-77 tweeter but the Cornwall IIs moved to a K-57 mid and a K-79 tweeter.

In addition, the woofers changed too, which means that there was more then just the cabinet changing (at least on Heresy II models - I don;t know if the Cornwall II had a differently constructed cabinet).

The Heresy models I compared were my 1991 Heresy IIs to a pair of 1978 (I think..it was either a '78 or a '79 model) Heresys. All three drivers on both models looked different and they produced a distinctly different sound.

I would have to guess then that the Cornwall II drivers also look differently then the Cornwalls and hence produce a distinctly different sound as well.

I'm just trying to clarify what you said above. I read it as though you were saying that the driver changes occured BEFORE the "II" models came out and all that changed was the cabinets, and after reading the spec sheets, you had me scratching my head!

[HDBRbuilder]

Different mounting flanges get a different designation. The current components in the Heresy II are not the same as on the original issue of the Heresy II, either. You gotta dig a little harder to find out things than just the spec sheets the company posts now. Since the original introduction of the Heresy and Cornwall II models, a number of changes have been made...some not willingly...but due to driver manufactureres no longer being in existence or discontinuing certain driver models. Current specs posted for the Heresy II are not the same as the original ones for it...like I said...the changes have been an ongoing process. PAY ATTENTION!

[heresy2guy]

Please forgive me oh High & Mighty one.

I'm sorry to have ruffled your feathers.

[Malcolm]

Builder makes a good point about specifications. They only represent the facts at one point in time. Klipsch made many changes in components in all of the Heritage line over the years.

The squawker driver and horn did change on the Heresy before the debut of the Heresy II. The last couple years of production saw K-52-H and K-53-K squawker drivers and a K-701 plastic horn. Most of the earlier ones, for twenty years or so, all except the very earliest, used K-55-V drivers on K-700 metal horns. The last of the many woofers used in the Heresy was the K-22-K, which AFAIK is identical to a K-24-K. These last year Heresys had a different timbre to them because of the difference in squawker. The Heresy IIs are even more different because they have different tweeters.

FWIW all can be described as having that Heritage sound. But they are different enough that I would stick with one variation in a given setup.

[HDBRbuilder]

Not ruffled...just trying to get you to EXPAND your horizons beyond the readily available...LOL!