Fozzy Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 Hello Muleman, your search for a really good sub is over... In my opinion there are only a few really good subwoofers out there, depends on what you like to spend as well. First I also use a complete Klipsch set up including Forté II speakers as rear surrounds, front Chorus II and center a KV4 and two double 15" SW Series II subs. The old model not the new one, which I think is a failure on all levels. If you can find an old Series II model they are really superb. All my speakers are driven by Parasound HCA3500 amps. There's much talk about SVS subs, but they're not my kind of sub. The build quality sucks and I'm refering to the top of the line model ! A friend of mine bought two of them and resold them the same week ! He used an expensive THX approved brandnew professional QSC poweramp to drive them, so it wasn't because lack of power he sold them, they just don't sound right... Too boomy... but they do move alot of air due to their high excursion woofer. If your looking for a deep, dry and warm sub look elsewhere... Here is my list of subs worth considering: Velodyne HGS series 15 or 18, Bag End Infra sub 18", Sunfire Mark IV sub or the signature, REL Stentor, B&W AS4000 or if you're going insane you can always try the Wilson Audio XS which is using the awsome Seismic drivers ! They don't make the speakers themselves so ideal for a DIY project. For the moment I'm happy with my oldie SW subs, which are a great match with the Forté II in your case. Greetz Yves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robB Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 ---------------- On 1/19/2003 5:57:36 PM HornEd wrote: Thanks, muleman, my favorite ex-wife would probably say "muleman" fits me better than "HornEd"... for I tried over a dozen subwoofers configurations before my present 7' dual SVS Ultra sub tower... even to the point of using five Klipsch subs in a 6.1 system! Now, if that doesn't earn mule ears on a Klipsch head I don't know what does. I understand your "Forte-II-Love" affair since I have one with Klipschorns in the corner and a Belle in the middle (a la PWK)... with a pair of Cornwalls on the sides and an Academy bringing up the rear (effects). Using the stacked Ultras provides a round 16" footprint which not only saves floorspace, but also allows maximum advantage from a single corner. Since you indicated a lack of floorspace for a sub, you might consider one of the more economical SVS PCi's with internal BASH amps can go much lower than the RSW crowd with greater authority. The RSW-15 has more mid bass "slam" but it comes at a much higher cost, requires more floorspace, and still doesn't get as low. Besides getting down to 16 Hz with authority, my Ultras provide a transparent integration with either my Legend-based HT or the Klipschorn based audio wheter in three-channel stereo or multi-channel CD's. The 12" drivers are quick enough to keep up with the music... a trait that is also a particualry strong point of the RSW family. Of course, there is no center for your system like another Forte II for HT... but, from my own experience, the much heralded Academy makes a great center for three-channel stereo music... but, IMHO, falls to only good for HT because of its timbre matching shortfall. But, it's probably a closer match than you have for the Forte II's. The Reference line is a wonderful addition to the Klipsch line... but is simply not "voiced" like your Fortes. The latest reference level data from Dolby Digital suggests that subwoofers be able to attain 115 dB for HT... and 121.5 dB for professional theaters. It takes a doubling in power to raise an subwoofer's SPL's by 6 dB. The reason for the high SPL potential in your subs is that, in the Dolby Digital example, sounds that are very lound usually last for less than a second... thus, there is no damage to one's ears (or so they tell us) but an indispensible attribute of realism in a "LIVE" sound has been met. That is a factor that few people plan for in buying subwoofers. That means that there is no single subwoofer I know of under $2k (not counting DIY) that can really do the whole job for awesome HT... and I am a person who uses the "awesome" word sparsely. If you have read many of my posts on the HT subject, muleman, you know that having an adequate subwoofer is second only to having an adequate front center channel... and I prefer timbre-matched elegance to forced speaker induced ambience. But, hey, people have to build a system that works for them... and that is a primary contributer to commiting us all to the long, mega-buck, Klipsch-based upgrade trail. Clearly, getting a solid idea about the kind of HT and music target system you desire goes a long way to making that upgrade path more cost effective. The difference between a well-balanced system with adequate front center and subwoofer array becomes an audio-thing-of-beauty... may it be yours! =HornEd PS: Of course, PWK's approach in what is now called the Heritage line was to provide all the range one needs to enjoy almost all the notes of a classical orchestra. So, I use the tall sub array with the Klipschorns when I am on a bottom-scraping organ binge. ---------------- hornEd good post ed! what you were saying about subs, weighing cost versus ablilty,..is VERY true Im using ktp 484 subs with the lascalla fronts its a good match, because the 3 front lascalla are so darn agressive. But.. im using a Dynaco 416 to power the 484 subs A few horsepower are needed for these unpowered babies. .....thats the tradeoff. The BIG (and heavy) outboard amp. but there's nothing like a pro sub* no "mush"!! Ps .My subs are not used for music cd's! I do agree with your QUote on PWK's belief for full spectrum of "music reproduction from the heritage speakers that they do very well.!! Enjoy! Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muleman Posted February 2, 2003 Author Share Posted February 2, 2003 Wow, I have been off-line for a few days and it looks like there's some great discussions going on. I havent purchased my sub yet, but on HornEd's suggestion, I have been looking into the SVS PCI in detail, and was leaning that way. Interesting remark about their build quality, however. I wonder if others have had a similar experience. I will have to look into your other suggestions as well. Appreciate the suggestions. For my setup, I am space limited. My listening room is 12.5' wide. With 2 forte II's, a 57" TV and a component rack, the allowable space for a sub is limited ( assuming a front positioning). The rsw-10, SVS PCi (@ 16" dia), or other similarly sized sub would just fit. So guess I need good performance in a compact design. PS - would you tell me more about the 15" Sw series II ? I think I need more information to differentiate between the old ones and the new ones you described. MULEMAN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthurs Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 try elegant audio online. I bought my rsw-15 through them and have been very happry. and you're right, no such thing as overkill.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muleman Posted February 3, 2003 Author Share Posted February 3, 2003 In my internet searches for the right sub I have come across something called the "Carver Audio Knight Shadow" - its a 10" 500W mini sub with apparently good reviews (except for one). This seems to meet my space and performance requirements. Its a "cousin" of the Sunfire line made by Bill? Carver. Does anyone have any experiene with this product or where I can find one? They are apparently hard to find... HornEd - how does this compare with the SVS PCi unit you recommended to me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muleman Posted March 3, 2003 Author Share Posted March 3, 2003 Just to follow up: (I know I'm replying to my own posts). I purchased an SVS PB1-ISD cube subwoofer. It has a 350 W BASH amp and a 12" driver. I hooked it up to my HT and it sounds totally awsome. Remember the aquaduct chase scene in Terminator 2 Judgement Day where the T1000 is chasing Arnold and young John in a semi? That comes through excellent with this sub. I am very satisfied with this sub. Music also sounds great but I need to enable the crossover and adjust accordingly when playing music. For movies the crossover is disabled and the box plays the LFE form the 5.1 track. It just fit between my main speaker and TV. MY HT is now complete as follows: Klipsch Forte II front L and R (oiled oak) Klipsch RCIII-2 Center Klipsch KG1 surround L and R SVS PB1-ISD powered sub Marantz SR6200 A/V receiver Toshiba DVd Hitachi 57" widescreen HD ready TV Scientific Atlanta HD cable box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muleman Posted March 3, 2003 Author Share Posted March 3, 2003 Just to follow up: (I know I'm replying to my own posts). I purchased an SVS PB1-ISD cube subwoofer. It has a 350 W BASH amp and a 12" driver. I hooked it up to my HT and it sounds totally awsome. Remember the aquaduct chase scene in Terminator 2 Judgement Day where the T1000 is chasing Arnold and young John in a semi? That comes through excellent with this sub. I am very satisfied with this sub. Music also sounds great but I need to enable the crossover and adjust accordingly when playing music. For movies the crossover is disabled and the box plays the LFE form the 5.1 track. It just fit between my main speaker and TV. MY HT is now complete as follows: Klipsch Forte II front L and R (oiled oak) Klipsch RCIII-2 Center Klipsch KG1 surround L and R SVS PB1-ISD powered sub Marantz SR6200 A/V receiver Toshiba DVd Hitachi 57" widescreen HD ready TV Scientific Atlanta HD cable box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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