redwood forest Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 I plan on getting two W210 TacT subwoofers to supplement my khorns. As you know, khorns go down to 35Hz, but the TacT subs drop down to 16 Hz which is great for organ music. The two subs have no amplifier or crossover. I have an amp that I can use, but I haven't a clue as to what crossover, slope order, or cutoff point to use. Does anyone have any ideas about this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j-malotky Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 Red First the crossover point, generally try to set 10 Hz over the drop off of your speakers. Using your estimate that would be 45 hz. 40-50 HZ would be good. But since directional bass is undetectable to human ears in the 80 hz range, and your subs will have an easier time producing bass than your Khorns, you may want to try setting your crossover point arround 80. I have not heard the subs you have. Your sub bass may be a bit more boomey than your Khorn bass, so you will have to play with it once you get your gear setup. JM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 I'm unfamiliar with those subs. The K-horn's response starts down at 65 Hz and has a bounce at 50 and down again. Id set the crossover at 65 os 70 Hz and use a 12 dB/octave electronic crossover. Harrison Labs F-mods will do a nice job. They are passive and inexpensive. They plug into the power amps and can be had in matching high and low pass versions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael hurd Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 Go to www.servodrive.com and click on their product the contrabass. I guarantee that you will not be dissapointed with their specs. They are a professional belt driven subwoofer sytem with two active 15 " drivers and two 18 " passives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Garrison Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 Red, Aren't the Tact subs designed to work specifically with their digital crossover / phase compensator / room correction widgets? If you're going to go as far as getting the TacT subs, I'd certainly go full boat and get the TacT electronics to drive them. If you don't want to spring the mucho $$$ that the TacT digital amps and processors cost, then I'd go with different subs. A bit of perusing on this site will show you we have folks using, and very very happy with: SVS subs VMPS subs REL subs CARVER cubes Velodyne ServoDrive oh my.... and then there's always the new, over the top, horn loaded beasts from Avantgarde which you can see at ( Avantgarde Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwood forest Posted February 12, 2003 Author Share Posted February 12, 2003 Ray, Yes I am planning on getting the 2.2x room correction unit for $5000 to operate the subs. This room correction unit can also determine the frequency response pattern in any room based on room modes, boomy walls, bay windows, you name it..., and compensates by lowering harsh frequencies and increasing dead frequencies automatically. The end result is a totally flat response across the board. No room correction pannels, or traps are needed. The correction unit is for the future. For now I can use a cheap crossover to operate the subs. I have been looking around for subs, and I'm not happy with what I've seen. Most are boooooomy and are not very musical. Of course the problem may be due to a bad sound room. I want subs with a fast, tight bass response like the Khorns, but lower in frenquency for organ music. I will have to try some of the others mentioned above. Could you narrow the list to the top three? What about the BAg End Infra 18 Sub? Have you heard these? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Garrison Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 My top three would be different that anyone else's top three. TheEARS and Horn Ed are a couple of folks on this forum who have experience with a large number of different brands of subs - I'd suggest dropping them an email or private message and asking their opinions. Me personally, I like the REL the best. It does not have the "slam" or volume capability of something like the SVS (unless you go with REL's largest models), but they are the most musical subs I've heard. Uh, in my system with my electronics in my room in my house with my music listening with my ears. SVS seems to be the up and comer based on messages flying hereabouts. If I could afford it, I'd go with the TacT system. Ray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwood forest Posted February 13, 2003 Author Share Posted February 13, 2003 Ray, The REL was one of those that I heard and disliked because of the boomy noise. However, I now beleive that it was due to the lousy acoustics in the listening room at Tweeter. I should have known better than to go there. I'll have to give REL a try somewhere else. The SYS sounds like something to check out as well. I'm a little reluctant to go with the TacT, because there is nowhere to audition them. The strong plus on the TacT sub side is that they are willing to sell me the raw drivers for $500 and provide me with the plans to make the cabinets myself. That will save me $2500. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 Redwood---To have well balanced sound you must use subs that match the output and low distortion of your KHorns, otherwise the deep bass will compress and distort while the KHorns are still cruising. Long-stroking dynamic subwoofers have a sound characteristic different from and inferior to basshorns and I'm amazed that people actually find the sound of such subs pleasing when used with KHorns and LaScalas. It's like running a full-race Big-Block Chevy with 2 barrel carb. This means either prosound or DIY. I no of no commercial, turn-key home subs that will match the capabilities of the KHorn. As has been suggested the ServoDrive Contrabasses will work fine. They are designed to be used with horns and match the output and low distortion of horns. I've heard them on several occasions used in home settings and they are superb. The rotary electric motor that drives them allows long stroking with low distortion, unlike conventional dynamic speakers. They do need lots of power though but the enclosures are small, at least by horny standards. You could build your own subs with high-power, high-efficiency, short-stroking drivers from JBL Pro or McCauley. At www.audioheritage.org you can find directions for building a powerful sub using twin JBL Pro 18" drivers. A pair of these subs would work well with KHorns. If you want low bass AND high efficiency AND high output AND low distortion using dynamic drivers you simply can't avoid huge enclosures and large driver area. And if you don't want high output and low distortion than why bother with KHorns in the first place, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwood forest Posted February 13, 2003 Author Share Posted February 13, 2003 Michael Hurd and TBrennan... Thanks for your suggestions. The ContraBass looks like it was meant for a rock band stage so at first I was reluctant to consider this. However, you are right that the short stroke, high efficiency of the Khorn might be too much for long stroke, low efficiency of the other subs. On the other hand, I have never heard of a sub powered by a MOTOR!!! This sounds scary. My sound room is only 13x17 feet. I'm not sure that bass that deep and powerful could develop in that room, although it would be great if it could. Alright, you have my attention now. So how much does this sub cost? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 Redwood----I think a Contrabass costs about 3 grand. You'd also need an active crossover and a reliable, high-power prosound amp like a Crown or QSC to drive the sub. Figure another 12-15 hundred for crossover and amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwood forest Posted February 14, 2003 Author Share Posted February 14, 2003 TBrennan, Thanks. Why do I need an active crossover? Won't a passive crossover work well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 Red---There is quite an efficiency mismatch between Khorns and the Contrabasses though not an output or dynamics mismatch. So the Contras need alot more power. This mismatch is most easily dealt with by using an active crossover and a seperate amp to power the Contras. There are other reasons too to go active but this is the main one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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