manufanatic Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 Hello all I wanted to pass on my experience recently dealing with so called Brick and Morter dealers. Many on this forum and others support B&M dealers and chastise some of us who go for the cheapest price on the internet. The main advantage of B&M is actually viewing and listening to the equipment and contuinuous support after the sale. Here is my story I had narrowed my choice down to the Denon 3803 and wanted to audition this unit. I eagerly surfed to the DENON web site and found the dealers closest to me. Of course as i suspected the nearest dealer was 60 miles away so i decided to call before i went down. The first place i called was very friendly and really hyped up the DENON but stated that all they had was one piece and it wasnt hooked up. I asked "can you hook it up so i can see how it performs"? Thier response was "well once its opened we really must sell it to you" Interesting how does this differ from buying it on the web? I then asked "OK what if I purchase the Unit and it doesnt meet my requirement s may I return it"? The answer was no only if its deffective but you could get store credit. Well i wasnt to happy with the other choices he offered so i said thankyou and hungup. Next I called Good Guys in Ventura (100 Miles away) Waited for 5 minutes for someone to come on and asked if they carried the 3803. Sure we do was the response then i asked is it hooked up so i can listen to it. Their response no and we cant hook it up because the wires arent long enough. Sounded like i was talking to some highschool age kid who could give a damn. Then I called a Place in SLO about 60 miles north of me and Bingo They had the Denon and said yes just give us a call about an hour before you come in and we will set up whatever we have for you for an audition. Now thats what i expect. Now after this long message my question is if i audition the DENON at that establishment what would you consider a fair price. The DENON can be had for about 850 online and retails for 1199. Is 900 fair. The B8M supporters have generally stated they are willing to pay upwards of 30% over what they would pay on the internet. Love to hear your responses on this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skonopa Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 ---------------- On 2/13/2003 1:15:40 PM manufanatic wrote: Now after this long message my question is if i audition the DENON at that establishment what would you consider a fair price. The DENON can be had for about 850 online and retails for 1199. Is 900 fair. The B8M supporters have generally stated they are willing to pay upwards of 30% over what they would pay on the internet. ---------------- Personally, I prefer to shop at the local "B&M"s before going online, primarily becaue I do like to "kick the tires" as well as for the service and support in the event anything goes wrong or I just simply don't like the item in my own environment. It is also nice not to have to deal with shipping hassles as well as having the satisfaction of having the item right then and there - no waiting for a package to come in. Plus there is that nice feeling of supporting the local economy. (yes, even if shopping at a big chain, you are still supporting the local economy - the staff is getting paid out of that. Part of the sales tax is going to the local government, etc). Also, alot of time you are taking a greater risk with dealing with on-line dealers. There are plenty of reputable ones and several folks on here can recommend some nice ones. Still, there is always that risk that a package gets lost in shipping, the item arrives defective and now you have to ship it back and wait for a new one to arrive (provided its availble). Also, the service of alot of these dealers tends to be spotty. Still, if you think the savings is worth the risk, than go for it! That being said, I have purchased my Denon AVR3802 on-line through Buydig.com and got it for around $800 - actually about $830 after shipping costs (this was last winter/early spring, when the 3802 was still one of Denon's new darlings). They were pretty decent to deal with and I got decent service from them, but the shipping was on the slow side - took it three weeks to arrive when they said it would be only a week - two weeks max. However, to be fair, I'll admit that one of the weeks was Holy Week/Easter. The only real reason was at the time, there where no dealers around my area (the week that it finally arrived, a Tweeter store opened up, which carries Denon - but still, it was nice to save the $200 over what Tweeter wanted for it.) As to how much to ask for it - if you can get it for less than $1000 from a B&M, than you are doing good - hell, try for $900 and see what they say, but less than that, I think you are pushing it, especially for something as new as the 3803 - if it was an older model, than you could get away for less. They are taking the time to set it up for you so you can listen to it, and the service they provide ought to be worth something. Also, after paying for shipping and handling - that $850 unit you saw online would end up being around $900 anyway, unless the dealer is providing free shipping or the cost you quoted included shipping. Anyway, the service and the instant gratification is worth an extra $50 from buying at a dealer to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjohnsonhp Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 I wouldn't expect the local reseller to sell an $1100 3803 for $900. I would estimate $990 or a 10% discount PLUS tax (at 8% that would be $1070. If you figure the on-line reseller is $850 and shipping is $50 then you have an on-line option at $900...approx. a 20% savings. If your dealer is like Tweeter then you get: 1. a demo & sales person to consult with you (pre & post sale) 2. instant receipt 3. 30-day no questions asked returns (if you don't like it return it and walk or return it and buy a different receiver). Are those benefits worth $170? Only you can decide and then you have the correct answer. If you just want a factory fresh warrantied product with no return policey except for DOA then on-line seems to be a better fit. I tried to get my local reseller to sell me a $1k camcorder vs on-line and they couldn't come within 30% or so. I bought the camcorder on the way home from the dealer using my cell phone and had the camcorder in my hands by 10am the next day. Now in the bigger picture here is the way to get great value from the local dealer. 1. Pick a dealer near you that has the brands you think you will be selecting product from over the next couple years (TV's, Receiver, speakers, etc.). 2. Pick a sales rep you like and that is knowledgeable...and hopefully going to be around for awhile 3. Explain your intent to the rep...you are buying a receiver today but will need x,y, z in the future most likely and would prefer to buy from him/her. 4. Know the rep by name (and vice versa) and always ask for the same rep when entering the store. You should be able to get these benefits: 1. normal store benefits: 30 day return, no questions asked; price protection against other local resellers, demos, support 2. in-home consultation 3. the ability to audition their show room items and chat audio inbetween your purchases...for example you could audition and chat about Martin Logan speakers just for fun inbetween your real purchases. There is value in a long term consultative relationship, but I often like more options than one dealer; more opinions than one person; and like to save money. I have been very impressed with the support I got from Outlaw and look forward to buying from SVS. AV123 has a receiver in the 3803 class brewing as well as a DVD so that might be another option. ebay/audiogon allow one to buy used, keep for a couple months and then sell for +/- the price paid, but this is a bit of a risk due to lack of warranty and risk of damage. I'm thinking of buying an Academy with this model in mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddvj Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 ---------------- On 2/13/2003 9:57:56 PM kjohnsonhp wrote: I tried to get my local reseller to sell me a $1k camcorder vs on-line and they couldn't come within 30% or so. I bought the camcorder on the way home from the dealer using my cell phone and had the camcorder in my hands by 10am the next day. ---------------- Hold on a second, A camcorder is a little different than Audio equipment. Give the dealer your offer and see what he says. If you already know what you want, and the dealer doesn't have to spend an hour demoing the receiver, and the price still allows him to make a profit, he should take the deal. If not, he is being foolish. At the same time, it would be unfair to not let him know upfront that you are bargain shopping, you need to figure out if you are in the right ballpark, pricewise, before you ask the dealer to spend a lot of time explaining features, demoing, etc. In other words don't expect "B&M" service for Internet prices. As far as the first two stores you called not having a Popular receiver like the 3803 on display and hooked up, that is ridiculous. Offer them $849, take it or leave it, as they aren't offering ANY service above and beyond a website dealer. It's not like this is a rare item, and it's certainly not an unpopular product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjohnsonhp Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 I told the dealer rep from the start. He could have booked the order within seconds of me entering the store. He passed. I guess they have a loaded cost and min. amount to make a commission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manufanatic Posted February 14, 2003 Author Share Posted February 14, 2003 I wish i had a dealer nearby that i could have that type of relationship with, but alas i dont. Quite honestly i know more then all of the dealers around here and what worries me i know more about their own products. I could go to Tweeter but thats 4 hours away. I think offering them 10% over 850 is fair but i will wait until i go there to see if thier support is worth it( my SLO dealer no tweeter) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rexx Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 I generally buy all my equipment over the internet. The main reason is availabilty. Local high end A/V Dealer quit stocking Klipsch and Yamaha. They can order it but at a much higher price than is available online. My question to you is why the switch from Yamaha? I recently upgraded my 3090 for an RX-V1. Excellent receiver and can be had for around $1K new now that it has been replaced with the RX-Z1. Did you have problems with the 3090? Rexx Yamaha RX-V1 RP-5 Mains RS-3II Surround RC-3 II Center Custom Built Sub No Front Effects at the moment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manufanatic Posted February 15, 2003 Author Share Posted February 15, 2003 ---------------- On 2/14/2003 11:40:08 PM Rexx wrote: I generally buy all my equipment over the internet. The main reason is availabilty. Local high end A/V Dealer quit stocking Klipsch and Yamaha. They can order it but at a much higher price than is available online. My question to you is why the switch from Yamaha? I recently upgraded my 3090 for an RX-V1. Excellent receiver and can be had for around $1K new now that it has been replaced with the RX-Z1. Did you have problems with the 3090? Rexx Yamaha RX-V1 RP-5 Mains RS-3II Surround RC-3 II Center Custom Built Sub No Front Effects at the moment ---------------- no absolutely no problems with the 3090. Maybe its me but the yamaha sounds almost to dry with the rp5s. how do you have them hooked up on the RX-V1? I am still considering yamaha its just i feel their stuff has dropped off a bit in the past 3-4 years. BTW did you notice a change when you upgraded? I will be sending you a PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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