Amp reccommendation for Khorn HT/Music system

[Workin' Stiff]

Hello again. I haven't been around much lately but once again I need your advice. I'm in the market for a new amp and I never make a purchase before consulting here and the HTF forum.

I was lucky enough to pick up a pair of Klipschorns in walnut no less about 2 years ago. I got them from a very nice retired Navy man. Thanxxx again "Mr. Mac", where ever you are. I only paid $1200 for the pair!! Musically they are in excellent condition. The veneer is slightly damaged in two spots. Nothing major. This is by far the greatest bargain I've ever recieved, except for my lovely wife, of course.

insert <suckuptowifejustincaseshefindsouthowmuchmoneyispentonhometheaterinsteadofhelpingherbyanewcar.wav> file here.

Just for the record, I love my Khorns. Add me to the list of people that just sing their praises day in and day out. Everything you guys have said about them are true. My room for them is less than ideal but I am totally happy with their performance. Proper acoustical treatments and structural mods could only make them sound better and I think that would be scary. I have them in decent corners but not perfect super solid corners that extend the woofer as much as it could. The wall they are on is a little shorter than optimal (18' vs 27') so the true sweetspot is about 3 feet in front of my primary listen zone. Imaging is excellent at the listening zone and absolutly freakin' unbelievable at the true sweetspot.

I like to read reviews on Khorns. Almost all owners swear by them but you know what I find more interesting? Those that don't. I am equally interested in reading about peoples criticisms and dislikes. I pay even closer attention to the reviews that are less than 5 star ratings. I am convinced that anyone that rates these speakers as less than average just did not have them set up correctly or has some sort of agenda they are trying to address. I find that people that rate them slightly below perfect have valid criticisms, reasonable expectations and are being open, honest, objectionable and fair.

By far the most common criticism is that they can be considered too bright, tinny or shrill for some listeners. The common response to these complaints is better amp matching, which is why I'm posting here. For speakers, I also have the KSP-S6s, the KLF-C7 and a 12"Klipsch subwoofer (KSW-12 I beleive). I ordered the infamous SVS 16-46PC to replace the Klipsch sub. It should be here this Friday. I can't wait. I would really like to get a set of Belles for rears but I just can't swing that right now. I've budgeted those monies for a new HDTV this fall when the new models come out. I'm trying to create a balanced HT / Music system. My amp is a Sony 935. It's a decent entry level AVR for when I started but now I feel these speakers deserve something better. I've been doing my research on speaker / amp matching. I'm no expert. Many of the debates contain technical aspects that are simply way over my head, but I read them completley anyways. Even though I don't completely understand every nuiance I can usually comprehend the concept the poster is try to convey and value it accorddingly. Regarding Khorns, there seem to be two ongoing debates. (1) Integrated amps (AVR) vs. separates and (2) tube amp vs. solid state (SS). I read a thread discussing warmth (which I always thought was a good thing) as being the result of distortion (which I always thought was a bad thing). Very interesting. Khorners usually reccommend tube separates as the ideal set up, but isn't that mostly for a music set up? Doesn't HT suggest if not almost demand SS rather they be separates or integrated? I've boiled my favorite two choices down to (1) Sony TAN9000ES / TAE9000ES ($1558 for both) or (2) the Denon 5800 ($2400). Many Khorners say the Denons give the Khorns that warm sound. I've seen nothing regarding the Khorns and the Sony ES together. Does a SS pre-amp combined with a tube amp configuaration make any sense? I would think that might yield the best of both worlds but it may be the worst of all. I've seen very little talk of that hybridization. There must be a good reason for it's absence. Basically this thread is boiling down to another amp reccommendation post for Khorns in a HT/Music system.

You know what else is funny. It's funny how fast you become desensitized to good sounding music. Sometimes I forget how good my Khorns sound. I've been listening to a lot of HT stuff lately so my emphasis has been on DVD explosions, earthshaking stuff, gut wrenching subsonics, which I found a little lacking with my KSW-12 and hence the SVS purchase. Last night, I hit the CD play button and just listened to some R&B with the sub off. Man, it was soo sweet. The bass was soo tight and accurate. I play bass guitar so I know how I like my bass to sound. Then I moved into the true sweet spot, it was even sweeter. I turned on the sub and again, even better. I really appreciate the difference when I hear my second and third "sound systems" in my computer room and bedroom. I don't know this for a fact but I'd be willing to bet that next to your sense of smell, your auditory senses are the next fastest to becoming desensitized.

One last observation. My experience is very limited in auditoning high end audio equipment. Up until two years agos I truly believed Bose 901's were undeniably the worlds greatest speakers amongst true audiophiles. I've just recently been introduced to the names Magnapan, Electrostatics, Logan, Flutterman, Krell, Macintosh and other super high end stuff. I'm sure they sound all incredible. I can beleive they sound different. I can beleive they even sound what I would consider better, but I can't imagine they sound a lot better but I don't deny that they could. In the end, Khorns may not be the best speaker in the history of man. They may very well be the best performer dollar for dollar and certainly toward the top end of that list but even if they aren't, I seriously doubt I will ever replace my Khorns with a different front speaker as my primary sound system. I will leave these in my will for someone in my family that I know will appreciate and take care of them. There are very few other material things that I can say that about.

I can't beleive I wrote this post. It sounds like I almost have a clue as to whats going on. Please comment or correct any misconception I have as I'm sure there are many. As always, thanxxx in advance

[jdm56]

Hi WS,

I know a lot of folks swear by their tube gear, but inegrating 2 channel tube amps and pre-amps with a full blown HT rig could be pretty pricey. Seems to me a good compromise might be some really high quality / high value A/V separates. Personally, I think the Sony rig you mentioned would definitely be a killer - if not the last word in audiophile sound. I read a review of a Belles Research amp that can be had in two or three channel form. It uses MOSFET output devices, which in my limited experience have yielded very smooth, natural, "low glare" sound. They're American made, and the price is reasonable. (Around $1600-$2000, I believe) You might find the review if you're interested. It was in the 12/00 Stereophile, I believe. It might be in the archives on their website, too. Anyway, just a thought from another "workin' stiff" k-horn fan.

[J M O N]

Hello WS,

Thanks for the interesting post. To respond to some of your questions, I actually have a similar situation to address. I want to incorporate my Khorns into a HT system. Two-channel audio will be my priority, with HT secondary. I also want to use an optimum amplifier for 2-channell audio, while still having the HT ability. For me, optimum 2-channel means using a separate 2-channel power amp and preamp. My thoughts so far are to have a dedicated two-channel amp/preamp for audio, and add on an AV receive for HT. I would get an AV receiver that has pre-out for the two front channels, and run those pre-out to a aux/video input on the preamp. This might not be the "best" scenario for HT, but again, my priority is 2-channel audio.

I currently have a SS preamp with a tube poweramp and think it sound very good. However, I don't believe that is the optimal setup, and want to get a tube preamp sometime.

I agree that Khorns, and Klipsch speakers in general, have a very high performance for the dollar. That is why Klipsch are my speakers of choice. They may not be the best speakers in the world (is there such a thing?), but it will likely cost a heck of a lot more money to get anything superior.

[boomer9911]

Nice deal on the Khorns WS. I was running my Khorns for years off the Adcom Limited Edition GFA-585 (I prefer SS). I have recently switched to HT this year. I now run my Khorns through 2 Marantz MA700 mono block amps which are bridged to a Marantz SR18EX A\V Receiver. My surrounds will be a pair of La Scala's(still waiting on my order)and I have the C7 for now(Hersey's to replace in 02 for c and rc 6.1).

I agree with what you say about the reviews at audioreview.com, you either love em or hate em and those that hate em know nothing about them!

I have a friend with the ES series run though Polk speakers and he couldn't be happier.

[lindee]

WS,

I started my Khorns on Carver M500t when I first got them, then switched to a Creek 4320 integrated, unfortunately I had to trade it back because of interference from a local radio station (lack of shielding on the power supply). Now I'm running a Rotel RB980, I have to say that I am/was happy with all of them, most especially the Creek, fantastic piece of gear. Well that's my two cents worth. Happy hunting.

Eric

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[RossVTaylor]

Mr. Stiff,

Can't I just call you "Working?"

I can't speak towards the Sony, but I can tell you that I don't think you could go wrong with a K-Horn/Denon 5800 combination. I've got LaScalas with my 5800, and I'm in heaven. I could only dream of Horns (or Jubilees) with my 5800! You'd be a lucky man...

I've found the 5800 to be very musical - warm, yet dynamic and accurate. It has every feature I'd want and only a couple I don't need. For HT, too, it's outstanding. The 5800 is so good that several of the well-experienced AVS Forum members have traded various separates for a 5800, and I've read of many others using the 5800 as a pre-amp (not that I could imagine needing more power with my Klipsches!!).

I'm no Denon whacko. I've used and enjoyed other brands. But, I'm a believer in this receiver.

Regardless of what you buy, you've got many forum members jealous of your speaker purchase! Enjoy them.

Ross

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"Time flies like an arrow.

Fruit flies like a banana."