tubelion Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3284&item=3020074450&rd=1 Untested for this pair of 600V 8mf Western Electric oil caps. What a price! I can't bid up to it. Tubelion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khorn58 Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 Tubelion, These caps look a lot like the one in my 51 khorn crossover I attached a pic of the 51 crossover I know you wanted to see what it looked like! Next time I am have the cover off I will take better pics showing more detail. I would like to make a perfect copy of this one day for a matched pair or find one on ebay. or a whole 51 khorn to match mine. I have the 51 set up with a 59 right know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubelion Posted April 27, 2003 Author Share Posted April 27, 2003 Hello Khorn58, Thanks for your sharing. Amazing, what a huge caps! I never see anything like this before. It seems to be better than the WE or ttc caps I have. It answer my query that Klipsch did use high end parts once upon a time. No wonder why it was so famous at the 40-50. What are the three parts? coils? I really want to replicate one myself. The 58 Khorn has different crossover, does it have a transformer by that time. I really envy at your treasure, good luck in your search for another 51Khorn. Tubelion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khorn58 Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 Tubelion, Old khorn crossover for sale on ebay see link below... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3021147935&category=14993 The one on the left looks a lot like like my 58 crossover maybe its the same. I know mine does say 500-1000 on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubelion Posted April 28, 2003 Author Share Posted April 28, 2003 Hello Khorn58, I can't see clearly the pictures especially the taps setting. What taps are available ? which is the default setting in your 58 crossover? Your 51 khorn has no transformer nor L-pad? Your 51 oil caps looks much better than the two in the links. Tubelion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 Hi guys, I think caps that look like that were made by quite a few outfits years ago. I have a collection of them in a box marked "bathtub caps" in my junk collection. I believe they are simply old technology. To pay big bucks for them is not justified when modern caps are far superior. If anybody is interested I'll take a picture of some of them and post it. Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubelion Posted April 28, 2003 Author Share Posted April 28, 2003 hello Al, Of course I am interested in seeing them, but in 51 Khorn , it is the bigger caps that is striking. Don't know which brand it is. bath tubs or motor run is not of much concern. But those have a reputation certainly worth a lot. If you have a treasure, why not see how much they are, or AL try to build one ALK with some oil caps, and let us know how bad or good they are. I am glad to buy the WE caps 150 dollars for six 4mf caps. See http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3284&item=3020543982&rd=1 It is now 84 for a used pair of 4mf WE caps I am using. Don't know how high it will go in the end, a few hours to go. tubelion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 Ok.. Here's a couple of my old junk box caps. The big 2.0 uFd SANGMO cap measures 1.98 uFd with a quality factor (Q=Xc/R) of 160 at 1000 Hz. The smaller General Electric .5 uFd measures .568 uFd with a very poor quality factor of 64 and it has never been used. The little 1.0 uFd Harmony polypropylene bypass cap in the front measures .969 uF with a quality factor that is off the acurate part of my D/Q scale. It is well over 1000! I would doubt if those high priced Western Electric caps on eBay have quality factors beyon about 200. I have also measured a brand-new Jensen paper in oil cap and found its' Q was just a poor. These will sound "mellow" in a crossover netwrok simply becasue they are absorbing the highs! Sorry! Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubelion Posted April 29, 2003 Author Share Posted April 29, 2003 Hi AL, No sorry , I am glad to hear good information. I don't know much the technical stuff, but I pass your question to Mr Jensen, he usually answer my question as I bought caps from him, hope he will go in the details with your concern. In my past discussion with him, he is so serious in experimenting his product, for example, aluminum case against copper, then paper case, with or without rubber seal. He said the best case is paper case without rubber seal. Of course silver lead. I am sure you understand my joy in playing audio, not really serious in the theory, I am serious to learn something interesting. About your caps, they don't sell much in ebay, no body at the 50ties knew what to keep, some are so expensive and with so many bidders to fight for that, they must be attractive in some ways to a wide dimension of fans, most of them are DIY, I guess. I will post jensen's reply if I get it, and let you know. Tubelion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 Tubelion, If Jensen tries to deny that the paper in oil cap is low Q he is telling lies. I suspect he will give you a song and dance about "linearity" or something like that. I will be very interested to hear what he says! Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubelion Posted May 3, 2003 Author Share Posted May 3, 2003 Dear AL, It is what Mr Jensen replied, certainly not in detail. "Dear SZE, It is the same old story again!!! Everyone knows, that the dissipation factor(D) for a paper capacitor is higher than a polypropylene capacitor, meaning that the Q - which is 1/D - is lower. But to conclude, that there is a correlation between this number Q and the sound quality is not correct. Each capacitor has a different "sonic fingerprint", and you have to listen to the equipment to find out what type is most favourable to you. You can put up different theoretical theories, but it all comes down to one thing: What you hear is not what you measure. Most of our customers have chosen our capacitors from their sonic performance, and no theory can change their satisfaction. Best regards Hans J. Jensen" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted May 3, 2003 Share Posted May 3, 2003 Tubelion, What Jensen said is all true, BUT.. the poor Q is reisitance. It wastes energy and THAT causes the "sonic quality" difference you hear. You could do the same thing with a low loss cap and a series resistor. Make the resistor a "pot" (variable) and you could dial in the sonic quaity you like. It would act like a "shelving control" in a crossover. Paper in oil caps are simply old technology. An old "morning glory" horn crank-up victrola has a definite "sonic quality" to it too! Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dflip Posted May 3, 2003 Share Posted May 3, 2003 Here is a list of what you can spend on some modern caps. They probably will sound better and save you a load of money. Use some of these and then upgrade your inductors and you will probably like the results better. He recommended that I beef up my inductors to 12 awg solid wire and the result was very noticeable in the bass end. Ask Al and he can give you some good advice. He knows what he is talking about and is willing to share his knowledge with many of us this forum. Old is fine, but at some point the cost is a factor if you are not getting better sound and paying more money for it. I have included high end caps and the economical Solens as well. Hovland caps, 8 uF, $36.95, and the 4 UF, $25.75 Auricap $22.95 $14.95 Solen PPE caps, $4.35 and $3.35 Dynacap (speaker) $34.95 $22.95 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubelion Posted May 4, 2003 Author Share Posted May 4, 2003 Dflip Thanks for your information Tubelion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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