cluless Posted May 7, 2003 Share Posted May 7, 2003 Kain- what experiences have you had with your denon 2900? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe11 Posted May 7, 2003 Author Share Posted May 7, 2003 I have 2 RSW-15's on the floor and I can assure you that I have no shortage of bass coming from the analog outputs of the 2900. In fact I know I have too much at this point and the interesting thing is that it's coming right now from the Clapton/BB King DVD-A surround as I write this. Not exactly an album you'd expect to be bass heavy. I plan to grab an SPL meter tonight and set the channel levels. Haven't done it yet as I've just been enjoying the different formats, and getting comfortable with the player from a usability perspective. I think that bass from multi-channel audio may end up disappointing some of our more bass crazed members. It's not the same as a 2 channel setup where you run full range signals to L/R, hook the sub into the preamp and then set your low pass. From what I've heard so far in 5.1, the bass output you receive is very mix dependent. The engineers now have a dedicated bass track to play with and some are more generous than others with what they provide on it. In some discs there is a great deal of .1 information being sent and in others there is very little. Bass management will require some time for people to configure it to their own tastes. My impression so far is that those who prefer more audiophile, accurate bass will probably find 5.1 more appealing and those who are looking for more slam may be better served by continuing with straight 2 channel Hi-Rez. That's not a gospel truth by any means, just some initials thoughts from the time I've had to play around with the unit. I had the 2900 hooked up to my dedicated Rotel 2-channel gear for the last couple of days and 2 channel Hi-Rez is very nice. The only annoyance I have at this point is that DVD-A requires a monitor for navigation if it contains more than a single mix (which I think all of them do). I also think there are many individuals in audio/video forums who want to jump way too fast to conclusions on new gear. Of course the BM issue is a major one with combination players and everyone is interested to learn of potential issues, but the player hasn't even been in the hands of the earliest buyer a week yet. Right now I think many of us early adopters are still in the configuration stages with the unit and no one should jump to conclusions just yet. That said, at this time I can't think of anything which would cause me not to recommend this player to those of us interested in a universal format player. Once I go through the SPL setup tonight, I'll update with how it turned out. Patience for now. ~shoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted May 7, 2003 Share Posted May 7, 2003 WOWWEE,a few kids at avs are wringing their hands in flustration at this hi-tech mystery,the 2900.I have read glowing reviews from owners that have no bass management issues at all.These owners also have a good understanding of the unit.HTF had a very informative review on the audio,including bass management. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike728 Posted May 7, 2003 Share Posted May 7, 2003 I just noticed this issue last night. I'd been listening to 2-channel SACD's for the better part of the 5 days I've had it, so didn't notice it. There is definitely a bass attenuation problem with this things analog outputs. The only way I can come close to compensating for it, is to crank up my AVR-4800 sub channel level to +12dB and turn down the other 5 channels on the DVD-2900. That leaves me with the problem of excessive bass when watching a movie in DD 5.1 on HBO... If I can't find a resolution to this, it's going back. I really like its potential, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted May 7, 2003 Share Posted May 7, 2003 Hey Mike,when I switch my 3803 to SAT(HBO) I have the ch levels and sub calibrated(personal memory+) for that input.Also the ksw is ok but CANNOT keep up with the 7's ,get the rsw12/15,you won't run it wide open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAiN64 Posted May 7, 2003 Share Posted May 7, 2003 ---------------- On 5/7/2003 11:43:33 AM cluless wrote: Kain- what experiences have you had with your denon 2900? ---------------- I don't have it yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAiN64 Posted May 8, 2003 Share Posted May 8, 2003 Okay, it appears that the Denon DVD-2900 also has the chroma bug! Click here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greek Posted May 9, 2003 Share Posted May 9, 2003 I just received my 2900 yesterday. I have read BB reviews were people had trouble with the dvd-a and sacd connections. Im not savvy when it comes to detailed language related to hook-ups. Is the owners manual reader friendly? I have not had a opportunity yet to read it. I have the Denon 4802 receiver. If I run into problems can i contact you for assistance? Awaiting arrival of Samsung's HLN507W 50" DLP TV next week! Thanks..... Peter greek@webtv.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted May 9, 2003 Share Posted May 9, 2003 Hey kain,is spreading rumor all you do? Why don't YOU buy one THEN review,did Denon ban you too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAiN64 Posted May 9, 2003 Share Posted May 9, 2003 ---------------- On 5/9/2003 6:32:33 AM Fish wrote: Hey kain,is spreading rumor all you do? Why don't YOU buy one THEN review,did Denon ban you too? ---------------- Rumor?? It was something someone OBSERVED with their Denon DVD-2900. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe11 Posted May 9, 2003 Author Share Posted May 9, 2003 Ok after getting through two night's worth of thunderstorms and tornado warnings, I got the SPL meter and went through the calibration process. Here's what I found: First I had to set the levels on the Denon 3802 receiver. Using the tones from the receiver, I set the channel levels to 75db with no problems. Next through the 2900 I set the speaker configuration, and delay times. I then had to identify the volume level on the receiver at which 75db of output is being provided. No problems there. Lastly at that volume setting I had to run the test tones from the 2900 to set the channel levels to 75db. This is where I found what everyone has been talking about. When trying to set the channel levels for the 2900, the test tones as provided by the unit barely register at all. From my listening position, around 8 feet or so, each of the speakers was only generating around 60db on the SPL. This couldn't be compensated for in the 2900. For each channel, the 2900 does not provide any +db adjustment. It only allows 0db and then a range down to -10db if memory recalls. While I couldn't adjust it to the suggested 75db output levels, I did find that the levels at the lower output of 60db were quite consistent across all speakers. The setup materials advise that it might not be possible to acquire the 75db target, but to set the levels as high and as consistently as possible which I believe I did. After that I played a few multichannel discs. Again, I state that the bass was in my opinion, musically accurate relative to the source that was being played. Additionally, in my config of channel levels, my 2 RSW-15's were only set to 9 o'clock. I found that in any situation where I found the bass a bit lacking, a quick turn up no higher than 12 o'clock provided any additional bass that I might want. As there are no rap Hi-Res discs nor do I have any large orchestral discs yet, I can't really comment about very low sub bass output. I would speculate, however, that in those instances where more prodigous bass quantities are desired by the mixing engineer in order to accurately convey the intended slam/effect, that the discs would simply be recorded with greater information via the LFE channel. So yes the Bass Management perhaps does not work as advertised although it must be said in the setup materials Denon provides, they never suggest that the 75db settings for channel level are absolutely required. They merely say to get as close as possible. Also as several people have found, myself included, even without those tone levels, the resulting sound provided has no apparent lack of bass at all. Of course, I have alot more bass output available to me than others. I can see where a person with lesser subwoofer output could believe that the sound was bass shy. For those individuals indicating no bass, I'd be curious to know exactly what they are using for their LFE. Even with the recoginition of this issue, I still can't say it's a big deal to me. There have been no reported issues of double bass or other such BM related issues which may be more serious. Lastly to me the chroma bug simply is not an issue and even as reported in the avsforum, the jury is still out if this is actually an issue with the unit. My opinion of the unit after having had it for a week still stands. It's a very nice player. I've found all modes to provide great performance. Presently I will admit I still may take it back, but this has nothing to do with the unit's abilities. You see I'm an audio person. While I'm impressed by both DVD-A and SACD, my concerns are still related to the lack of available software in each format. I would really like to see a much higher level of upcoming releases than what I've been reading about at this time. Additionally, I'm thinking that I may wish to wait until such time as more multichannel solutions from dedicated audio companies make their debut. Presently the only real options for surround audio require the usage of gear more specifically designed for HT. I think MC music will really take off once dedicated MC audio products become more common place. Lastly, at this time I'm only using the S-Video output and given the still high price of flat panel displays and evolving standards, I'm not ready to make a purchase such that I can take advantage of the 2900's progressive output. I'd rather spend the money in the audio realm. Anyway I hope this information has been of use to some of you considering purchasing this unit. ~shoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted May 9, 2003 Share Posted May 9, 2003 ---------------- On 5/9/2003 7:33:18 AM KAiN64 wrote: ---------------- On 5/9/2003 6:32:33 AM Fish wrote: Hey kain,is spreading rumor all you do? Why don't YOU buy one THEN review,did Denon ban you too? ---------------- Rumor?? It was something someone OBSERVED with their Denon DVD-2900. ---------------- You should say it is something someone THOUGHT they MAY have observed,that's what the person said.They even went back and changed the thread title because they were not sure.Its always BEST to judge only what you have tried,anyone can have a hundred reasons for audio/video problems.This may or may not matter at all,but people spreading hearsay does none of us any good,imo.If you buy this product and have problems,TAKE IT BACK,sounds pretty simple.If I go to every site and proclaim Klipsch new faulty ref woofers blow up,some goof balls will start spreading this too,even though I just made it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted May 9, 2003 Share Posted May 9, 2003 sorry,double post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TauRus Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 Hey, Gang, I concur with most posts here that the BM issue though real does not have too much of an impact. Personally I set the Filter Off on DVD2900, thus all channels are set to Large and are full range. Yet, I thought this might interest those of you who are still thinking of purchasing this unit: I discovered a few video related bugs: - on the ELO Zoom Video DVD the player freezes every time I try to set the DTS audio option (my other JVC DVD player does not freeze there); - I have quite a number of VideoCDs (I realize for most of you this is pretty much insignificant, but I still keep quite a number of European made movies that are not readily available in the US on either DVD or VHS). Dennon DVD2900 displays incorrect screen size (as if the picture is zoomed in), the video is not smooth while audio is not in perfect sync with video, whereas my older JVC DVD has no problem at all playing these VCDs. - I also observed some artifacts in the movies that were not present when I played the same DVDs through the JVC player. While I am very satisfied with the audio functionality of this player, I am definitely very dissappointed with its video performance. Aside from the bugs above, on a general note I cannot see any improvement in the video picture compared to the older JVC player that has 10 bit 27 Mhz video DAC. I was really hoping that 12 bit 108 Mhz video DAC on DVD2900 will shine compared to the older technology, but unfortunately it is not the case. At least in mine. I guess this unit is going back to Tweeter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike728 Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 Well, after finally purchasing a SPL meter and following Denon's updated tech note, all is well. At least my sub now functions with SACD and DVD-A. I don't feel right setting my RF-7's to small, but it sounds fine that way. The sub channel of my Denon AVR-4800 now sits at +11dB. I was able to calibrate the other sources to play well with the sub set this high. I learned a lot from this purchase, and got a new toy (SPL meter) in the process. Everyone should have one of these. It tells you things your ears lie about. I'm not sure why Denon made this so difficult, but after taking the time to set it up as instructed, it sounds great. I have noticed nothing but improvement in the video quality over my Toshiba SD-9200. I have a Mitsubishi WS-65909, so I would easily notice any problems. The jagged edges I used to see from time to time are now gone. It's obviously not HD at 480p, but looks beautiful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 Mike - Not familiar with your TV model. Are you using interlaced or progressive scan? If interlaced, are you saying your "jaggies" are gone/minimized? DD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike728 Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 Doug, I'm using the progressive scan output from the DVD-2900. The Toshiba wasn't bad, just not as crisp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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