Thinking about building La Scalas

[hurdy_gurdyman]

I'm toying with the idea of building a pair of La Scalas and using my Heresy's mid and treble horns. What I need to know is what the woofer specs are so I can find one similar to use, hopefully at an affordable price. Are these specs available, and if not, any woofer driver recommendations would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Dave

[Gregorius]

Dave,

HDBRbuilder (Andy) could give you more insight on this than I, but the folded basshorn is not as easy as it looks. Also the Midrange horn on the Heresy is smaller that that in the LaScala. The tweeter may be the same, then there is the issue of the crossover. It may be cheaper and simpler just to find a used pair. I paid $800 for my LaScala's

Regards,

Greg

[hurdy_gurdyman]

Gregorius,

I know the horns are smaller in the Heresys, but the drivers seem to be the same. I can build a wooden horn. I've been building DIY speakers since I was a kid (a long, long time ago ). I build musical instruments, in part, to make a living, and I have a well equipped woodshop. I also know how to read blueprints well and have a set of plans for the La Scala. I can build them once I have all the needed info.

I'll also need a crossover schematic.

Dave

[Gregorius]

Dave,

You surpass me then, I would not even try. Bookcases are more my speed.

HDBRbuilder had some posts here where he corrected some of the commonly available LaScala plans that are available. He used to work at Klipach back in the 70's and 80's. He also built a a couple of pairs of Oak LaScala's last year.

Do a forum search on HDBRbuilder and you should come up with something.

Regards,

Greg

[HDBRbuilder]

For dimensionally CORRECT LaScala plans search for the following:

updating older speakers

subject: speaker plans

originally posted by lena

date: 2/26/2003

Scroll down til you get to my posts in that thread and you will find dimensionally corrected prints posted. If you want to build a standard factory model using the K77 or K77M tweeter, the K-400 midrange horn lens and the K-33 woofer, these will work.

I included some hints for cutting and such in the revised plans. If all you intend to end up with is a standard factory type pair, then these will work, but there are things you NEED to know besides the plans and my notes in them in order to do a good job. If they are to be painted, I would suggest using 1" baltic birch for the side panels, it provides more rigidity and is less prone to the occassional reverberations sometimes encountered in the standard models at extremely high volumes....OR you can just install "wings" between the doghouse and the sides to solve this problem. The sides should be cut just about 1/32-1/16 over size in each dimension in order to have a bit of overhang at the bottom and the rear of the cabinet...this can be routed off or belt-sanded flush after completion. As the parts are assembled(glued and nailed or screwed), immediately afterwards, before the glue sets up, you need to wipe extra glue into the joints to ensure a solid seal, then using a wet paper towel, wipe off the excess...this is MOST important in the bass bin assembly area, but is a good idea for all the assembly. Be sure to drill all the pilot holes for driver/horn attachment prior to assembly. Use 4 standard 10-24 machine threaded t-nuts to secure the woofer to the motorboard...these will need to be installed prior to assembly from the back side of the motorboard...(be sure the holes for these are located at the NW, NE, SW, and SE cardinal directions, otherwise their location will interfere with later assembly)...drilled so that the woofer(K-33) will be exactly centered over the motorboard slot. The angles for the parts needing them are not negotiable, if you want proper basshorn lens function. Tight fit of parts is absolutely necessary!...all parts have to be "square" and dimensionally correct or you are gonna have problems...trust me on this. Attention to detail and exact saw set-ups are the key here.

Order of assembly is:

1. t-nuts into motorboard; wing assembly

2. bass bin "doghouse" roof assembly

let these assemblies set-up overnite.

3. doghouse sides to doghouse roof, then motorboard...to rear edge of doghouse sides, then wings to rear of completed doghouse, wipe glue into seams, clean off excess.

4. hi frequency motorboard to bassbin top, wipe glue into INSIDE seam, clean off excess

let set-up overnite.

5. bass bin bottom to doghouse, then bass bin top to doghouse, centered EXACTLY! wipe glue into ALL SEAMS, then clean off excess.

6. rear panel to bass bin assembly by attaching to rear edges of wings, centered EXACTLY, and perfectly FLUSH with left and right edges of bass bin top and bottom panels(back panel CAN be cut a bit overlength so that it has overlap at bottom of speaker, can be sanded flush after assembly)...ALSO install the splitter piece to the back panel at this time...wipe glue into wing seams and interior seams, clean off excess

7. sides to bassbin assembly/upper motorboard, wipe glue into ALL INTERIOR seams, clean off excess

8. top to rest of assembly, wipe glue into interior seams, clean off excess

9. rear upper top brace(horizontal) to top and sides, wipe glue into interior seams, clean off excess

do final sanding, apply finish

Install components

apply weather stripping to perimeter of doghouse "door", screw on doghouse "door"(DO NOT GLUE THIS ON!!!...this is your access to the woofer in case it ever needs replacing!!!), which is actually the bottom of the speaker...install "feet" if you want, and enjoy

[hurdy_gurdyman]

Thanks for the tips! This is my planned summer project next year. I currently have come down with rheumatoid artritis and can't do any major projects at this time. My doctor says the meds I'm taking should control this, but it takes time, so putting off major prjects untill later (hope I survive the meds side effects, yeach).

I bought some Heresy's about a month ago at a yard sale. It's my first good experience with horns in a domestic setting (I've had a couple of bad experiences). I love what they do well, and now want more! It's addictive! However, us poor musicians/luthiers can't afford bigger Klipsch speakers, so building them may be the best alternitive. Besides, I always enjoy woodworking projects!

If a person can build a working hurdy-gurdy out of wood, all other wood projects don't look quite so daunting!

Dave

[hurdy_gurdyman]

I have one more question. I notice a few folks here like the Cornwalls as well as the La Scalas, and it uses the same horn drivers. The cabnet seems less complicated to build, so this is also a posibility. It seems my Heresy parts would work fine in these with less modification.

Are there any plans available for Cornwalls? What woofers are used?

Dave

[HDBRbuilder]

The Klipschorn, Belle Klipsch, LaScala, and Cornwall all use he same woofer, the K-33. In addition, they also all use the same tweeter , AND the same midrange DRIVER, but...ONLY the LaScala and the K-horn share the same midrange horn lens! AA network era K-horn and the LaScala also share the same crossover network. The other models used different ones. My favorite network for the Cornwall is the B model....used in the so-called Cornwall I.

The Cornwall is a much simpler cabinet design, using much less wood in is construction; but it will not have the same bass sound as a LaScala due to its ported, non-horn design; BUT it WILL give a deeper bass response than the LaScala. If CLARITY of bass is what you want, go with the K-horn or LaScala, though.

No matter what you decide to go with, the midrange horn lens of a Heresy will not be satisfactory...in order to have proper function, the proper horn lens is needed.

[Daddy Dee]

Dave,

Al Klappenberger did a project earlier this year he called Heresy on Steroids. It came to mind when reading your posts. Essentially what it does is rebuild the Heresy into a ported cabinet of sufficient volume to do the bass driver justice. I think you could make satisfactory use of your current horns and crossovers. To build a La Scala (which is a daunting -to me- carpentry project) or Cornwall would require using 15 in woofers and larger horn lens for the midrange driver. I'm planning to build one of these this fall and am looking forward to it. Al's results were that he produced a killer speaker that is head and shoulders above the stock heresy. I haven't gone back to look at his posts, but as I recall the bottom end was good to around 30hz or so.

IMO this would be the best best for economy, too. the cost of alacarte parts can make the project easily approach the cost of a used unit in decent shape.

Do a search for Heresy on Steroids to find his posts. Al is a super guy, and in response to my interest he e-mailed me some pictures and autocadd drawings for the project.

Best regards,

Dee

[hurdy_gurdyman]

Thanks for the link. I'd already read this and was considering it. I guess I'm just thinking greedy, as I wanted the extra efficiency of the bigger speakers, not just the bass extension. Maybe it isn't practical or cheap enough, so just making a bigger bass reflex box for the Heresys is maybe the more practical way to go. I'm using nice open back subs that match the Heresys quite well, so not sure if I'd gain much with the bass reflex idea. Also, would the bigger box cause any loss of the bass quickness, or "slam" they currently have?

Dave

[ttaylor]

I tried the ported Heresy but even though the F3 dropped, the efficiency is still too low. Biamping and matching SPL would work but I think that if one is to build a larger, new cabinet, might as well make it a Cornwall.

I just got done trying some cheap dipole subs that I built for a fullranger project with my Heresys and they integrated well. I larger pair may be in the works for my Heresys. Id love to used a Khorn (which is what my LS is getting) but the room just wont handle a horn sub.

taylor

[hurdy_gurdyman]

I'm also using dipole subs with the Heresys. They work wonderfully with them. You can't tell where the Heresys stop and the subs start. I plan on making another set of OB subs this winter with H boxes and better quality 15" drivers.

Someday, when I'm real bored, I'm going to do some math and studing and build a set of wooden horn lenses and see how they work. If it works, the La Scalas are still a possibility. Others have built sucessful horns, so no reason I can't.

Optimistic Dave

[ttaylor]

Dave,

I decided to really listen to my dipole subs and Heresys critically and believe this is a superb combo. I built W baffles to save space and used $6 ea Pioneer OEM 10" drivers and feed it with a 25watt Gainclone and cheap Pioneer graphic EQ. The Heresys run full range on another 10watt GC. Absolutely great sound! Tight articule bass with no thumpiness.Plays fairly loudly but... Im going to build a proper pair using Peerless or similar drivers and an active EQ. Other than the placement out from the walls, this is the best Ive had my Heresys sounding.

On another note, I would really think about buying a pair of LSs. I love mine but have nowhere but the garage to put them until my listening room is built.They are big and f@#king heavy! And by the time you purchase K-33s, ply, crossover components, and time to build the beasts, you could have bought a used pair for alittle more and still have the Heresys. Just generating ideas.

taylor