Placement of Klipsch Forte's (in a corner or not)

[cn1790]

I need some advice about how the Klipsch Fortes (the original not the II series) were designed by the engineers to be placed in a room. Basically, were they intended to sound best when place in the corners of a room or moved away from the corners and into the room several feet?

Im trying to tune my room some and wanted to start first with the optimal location for the speakers based on the design intentions. In case you have additional thoughts on the location, what I am working with is my living room which is a 14 x 30 room with 9 ceilings. I am planning on putting the speakers on the 14 wall where I have a couple large 5 x 3 windows arranged roughly as: left corner to 1st window 3ft, a 3ft window, a 4ft center wall space, a 3ft window, followed by a 2ft wall space which ends in the corner with a 4inch piece of molding which is the start of a 4ft entrance into the foyer along the 30 wall.

After placing the speakers in to optimal location based on the design specs, I plan on moving them around some based on getting the flattest frequency responses using ETF or other acoustic frequency generation/sampling software.

[brucem]

The best placement I've found for my Fortes is in a corner, but not too close in. I have mine about 12" from the back wall, and about 8" from the side wall. This seems to give me the best combination of bass response, clarity, and 'forwardness.' Of course, every room has different acoustics, so you really need to experiment until you find the best response *you* like. I long ago gave up listening to "experts" tell me how to place equipment; they don't have my room or my ears. Best of luck in your experimenting.

And by the way: I personally think the original Forte is the best combination of performance and size of any speaker I've heard (inlcuding the Forte II). I wish that Klipsch would see fit to re-introduce this model in its historical series.

[mark1101]

I don't have any experience with Fortes. However, please check out Wilsonaudio.com, and go to tech notes and room acoustics. It describes exactly what you are looking for with room diagrams and speaker placements. It discusses the +/- of each. Good stuff.

However, you will be surprised at what you read. I rearranged my system and got the speakers out of the corners, and along the long wall as recommended. Best thing I ever did. But I won't try to sell that arrangement. Read on, and see what you think.

[garymd]

My cornwalls are on the long wall (ever so slightly toed in) and this allows a more open soundstage IMO. I can sometimes hear voices and/or instruments almost to the corners, behind me, etc. I don't think you can always achieve that with corner placement (except maybe with k-horns). It's what I like anyway. Just my 2 cents and MHO.

[Colin]

Unlike conventional loudspeakers, the angle on big ole horns should be directly at your ears or the back of your head, whether the horns are near the front or side walls or NOT. This will create a sonic 3D holograph with better separation of individual instruments, much cheaper than many cone drivers. The nearer the big ole horns are to the side walls, the better and lower the bass will be; however, the farther the big ole horns are from the front and side walls, the better the mid-range and treble response, imaging and sound staging will be; so placement is a matter of compromises.

The excellent article by cable manufacturer George Cardas is a perfect jumping off point. See Setting Up Loudspeakers In A Rectangular Room at EnjoyTheMusic.com (http://enjoythemusic.com/magazine/archives/). Start with his classic formula, since you cant go wrong, then wiggle your horns backwards into the corners by inches, listening to a favorite vocal solo as you go. Somewhere between his ideal way out in the room and the typical non-audiophile crammed into the corner positioning, you will find a magical sweet spot that is wide and deep with excellent imaging and separation. In my experience, horns end up further back from the listener and wider apart (by a foot or so) than conventional loudspeakers. The proper positioning will separate your home movie and music reproduction system from the merely playing back the notes equipment that so many non-audiophiles seek, to the sublime illusion of an almost real person performing in your own living room. For tweaking audiophile dollars, this is what stereos are really all about!

[WMcD]

I agree that most of the speakers, K Horn excluded, should be first tried a foot or so away from a corner and toe'd in to the listener.

I was today reading the internet review of the Forte II. The author reports that, in his experience, it is not best to situate the listener on axis. It may be a red herring. He also suggests experimentation. A good thing in my experience. But being off axis in listening doesn't tell us what is going on with the speaker and the room.

It got me to thinking. As you may have read, I'm a fan of radiation patterns in which the tratrix midranges are good. But the same may be said of the expoential horns of many of our units.

My guess is that the experiments come out well where the aim and placement is such that the side radiation from the midrange horns are minimized as far as bouncing off walls. We can still be sitting in a good area of off axis response regardless of placement and aiming.

For example. If they are placed a foot or so away from the corner, then the radiation pattern doesn't hit the adjacent walls because they're more behind the front radiation pattern of the speaker.

Experimentation is necessary because in any given listening room, the front or side walls may have some furnature or padding or other equipment. So there are no pat answers.

Overall, my guess is that aiming toward the listener, or being off axis, is not the issue at all. It is rather aiming them so that there are fewer reflections off walls.

This may account for folks reporting good or bad results based on different theories. All things being equal, one school says I aimed them so I'm on axis listening, or somewhat off axis, and things got better or worse because of irregualities in the listening area, say plus or minus 20 degrees off the main axis.

At the same time, this re aiming has altered the amount of sound being sprayed on the walls from the radiation pattern 60 degrees off axis. This may have been the real reason for things getting better or worse.

Naturally, you can see how both the near on axis response and the off axis response, and the room can hold sway. There is no "one" right way or one right placement.

Gil

Gil