Arthur Yang Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 I had just got one pair of 50th Anniv. Khorn. Very lucky to get them. They are in mint condition though used for a short while. My system is Linear Acoustic CDP + Jadis JA30 + Jadis JPS2 Anything should I be reminded to get good performance from them. Your advices are highly appreciated. Thank you first. My listening room is around 5m x 7m with ceiling high more than 3.5m. Speaker are set at the short side with two windows behind them (windows are 80cm from floor ). Listening position is 1 meter from radiation intersection which is about 3 to 4 meters from wall. First impression: it seems that I get to much bass. Kind of quite sticky feeling. image is not as focused as my other pair of speakers Ensemble Primadonna gold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovemyhorns Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Try toeing them out so that the tweeters are perpendicular to your listening location. This will make them not square to the corners which should attenuate the bass and at the same time, focus your image. If you have lost too much bass, toe them back into the corners until you get the appropriate bass and focus you desire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 I'm not sure why you're getting too much bass. I think your amp is EL34-based, isn't it? But one thing is for sure ... keep it snug in the corner. That's where it's designed to be. If you have the ability, try putting them against the long wall, even if just for brief experimentation. Your room is plenty large, but trying the long wall will help eliminate whether or not its a short wall problem. The 10' ceilings are excellent for the sound. Finally, the Klipschorn is a very revealing speaker. It's not coloring your music at all. What's going in is coming out. You may wish to swap in a SET amp to compare with your PP if one is available for a brief listening session. I've found a great variation in the sound produced by the same Klipschorns in the same room when I've rotated various amps in and out (Eico HF-81, AES (Cary) Superamp (KT88/EL34), Wright (2A3 SET)) and my current gear (see below) which is about as musical and perfect as I think it can get. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Congratulations on having Klipschorns in a good-sized room in Taiwan. That is, I'm sure, a rarity. You might try putting the speakers against your longer wall to see if you prefer that. When you talk about windows, do you mean actually behind the speakers, or inbetween the speakers? I would never recommend having Klipschorns anywhere but firmly in corners. The only exception would be if you wanted to build false corners, something you should not have to do. I don't know why you are getting too much bass, unless you are just not used to the Klipschorn sound. But taking them out of the corner to reduce their bass response goes totally against their design. Imaging isn't everything. Good luck. If you don't mind, let us know how you got these speakers in Taiwan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksdad Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 toe in a cornerhorn, unthinkable, this defeats the design, my guess is that you need to tweak your downstream Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Yang Posted October 9, 2003 Author Share Posted October 9, 2003 I am more than happy to learn that I get 4 gentlmen's replies after a few hours sleeping. Thank you my friends. You are so warm and kind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Yang Posted October 9, 2003 Author Share Posted October 9, 2003 ---------------- On 10/9/2003 2:11:28 PM Chris Robinson wrote: I'm not sure why you're getting too much bass. I think your amp is EL34-based, isn't it? But one thing is for sure ... keep it snug in the corner. That's where it's designed to be. If you have the ability, try putting them against the long wall, even if just for brief experimentation. Your room is plenty large, but trying the long wall will help eliminate whether or not its a short wall problem. The 10' ceilings are excellent for the sound. Finally, the Klipschorn is a very revealing speaker. It's not coloring your music at all. What's going in is coming out. You may wish to swap in a SET amp to compare with your PP if one is available for a brief listening session. I've found a great variation in the sound produced by the same Klipschorns in the same room when I've rotated various amps in and out (Eico HF-81, AES (Cary) Superamp (KT88/EL34), Wright (2A3 SET)) and my current gear (see below) which is about as musical and perfect as I think it can get. Good luck! ---------------- Yes, JA30 is powered by EL34 or KT88. 4 KT88 are serving. I did try 5687 SET amp. Sound quality is very good. Bass is lighter but the amount is all right. The problem is that it loses the image. Somewhat like the guitar is cut to two pieces- high in center, bass at the right. Higher power SET amp. maybe needed. I will try my other 245 SET mono amp. later today. Do you think 2a3 SET fits? I also suspect that resonance is another reason for getting excess bass. Or, maybe, it is just that I am not used to the clean bass yet. Thank you Chris! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Yang Posted October 9, 2003 Author Share Posted October 9, 2003 ---------------- On 10/9/2003 2:21:19 PM paulparrot wrote: Congratulations on having Klipschorns in a good-sized room in Taiwan. That is, I'm sure, a rarity. You might try putting the speakers against your longer wall to see if you prefer that. When you talk about windows, do you mean actually behind the speakers, or inbetween the speakers? I would never recommend having Klipschorns anywhere but firmly in corners. The only exception would be if you wanted to build false corners, something you should not have to do. I don't know why you are getting too much bass, unless you are just not used to the Klipschorn sound. But taking them out of the corner to reduce their bass response goes totally against their design. Imaging isn't everything. Good luck. If you don't mind, let us know how you got these speakers in Taiwan. ---------------- Right speaker sit firmly in rigid concrete wall coner. Window behind it start from the turning angel of the horn. But the window sits on a concrete wall which is about 80cm high from the floor. There maybe more problem in the left corner. The window is 80cm from the floor too but is right behind the speaker. The window on the parallel wall also start from the turning angel of the horn, same height. This, in some way, is like that I have a 80 cm high concrete corner which is about 20cm shorter than the idea least high of false wall. Or like I have a false wall which is built by concrete for the lower 80cm and by glass for the remaining part. Will this make big difference? There were five pairs of 50th Anniv. Khorn being imported into Taiwan by Klipsch distributor as I know. One is kept by the importer for his own use. The other three pairs were taken home by the old Khorn users at the first place. Only one pair is bought by new user. I guess this pair is from this user since it is quite impossible the old user will let go the jewel. I get this pair from an audio gear shop. They have been put in the corner for more than two years together with JBL Paragon and Olynpus 8(?) before I find them. As housing is extremely expensive in Taipei, not really many people have room to fit Khorn in. So I got them with luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Arthur I just thought of something. Check the seal on the bass bin doors just for kicks. If it's leaky the K-33 won't be properly loaded and that could introduce some frequency doubling which would sound like excessive bass. Just a thought that crossed my mind. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 Hi, Arthur. I have been having the opposite trouble, that is, not enough bass, but in exploring the problem, I have run across some useful information, because the cause is actually the same thing although the results are opposite to each other. Maybe this could help you to discover what is going on with your audio... Having windows in the room tends to bleed the bass outside (or so I was told by home theatre installers), so that probably isn't the trouble. I am suspicious that the problem may be due to frequency modes being set up due to the room dimensions, refelectivity of the floor, walls and ceiling and the room contents. Overly reflective rooms will also tend to ruin any "imaging" that the system is capable of. Frequency modes occur at various places in the listening enviroment due to reflections coming back onto the source path and the resultant phasing overlayment(at sub-multiples such as 1/4 wavelength, etc.) either adds or cancels certain frequencies. I would test this by moving around and listening where the bass is louder or softer and then consider putting some sound absorbtion panels in the appropriate places to minimize the problem. Bass absorbers in the opposite corners may also help. One more thing to try, (and this is ONLY a testing tool): reverse the polarity on ONE of the woofers. Do this at the woofer rather than the crossover. This leaves everything else in phase. I would expect that the bass will cancel itself, indicating that the problem is the environment, not the system itself. Alternately using this technique, it is easier to pinpoint the trouble spots in the room. It may not be the real reason for your dilema, but perhaps these ideas could help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 Want to get the best out of them? THE ROOM. acoustics. And you'll need the best recordings Welcome to the Forum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 ---------------- On 10/10/2003 5:42:22 PM artto wrote: Want to get the best out of them? THE ROOM. acoustics. And you'll need the best recordings Welcome to the Forum ---------------- Arthur, listen to Artto with regard to the room. He has this down perfectly. Actually, the room is the BIGGEST part of the whole sound equation. To do this right, you need to start with the room (modification-wise) and work backwards. The reality, of course, is that we are usually working with the rooms we inherited and don't have the luxury of designing the room to fit the equipment. Still, in your room, if feasible, repeat after me ... THE LONG WALL, THE LONG WALL. WRT to the 2A3 SET, I had some very good advice from Kelly and Jeff along the way (mobile homeless, painful reality) and have done the EL-34/KT-88 route. When I heard the 2A3 tube, I was in love. Perhaps one of Jeff's 2A3 push-pulls might be nirvana for you. He's doing a pair of monoblocks presently. Only drawback is that you have to PICK THEM UP in Quebec City. On the other hand, he's one of the best. Could be problematic when commuting from the ASEAN territories. Bottom line (for me) ... 2A3 SET was made for me. Unbelievable music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdm56 Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 My two cents worth: Klipschorns placed snugly in room corners will fully excite every bass resonance of the room, whether for good or evil. So, maybe try pulling them out from corners a bit. You WILL lose some deep bass, but mid and upper bass MIGHT be smoother. Worth a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Yang Posted October 11, 2003 Author Share Posted October 11, 2003 I have made some tries by following some of your advices which I think is practical to my conditions. And, they help! Now I have getten much better performance out of the Khorn in my living room. Although there are still problems need to be overcomed in the future, I know what might be the possible causes at the least. Thank you for all your friendly hands. Now the Khorn are signing quite wonderfully. The next that I have to do is to solve the unstable focus of the image. I guess I need to have a SET amp. with high current which could feed crossover and thereafter the mid, high drivers enough power to balance with the bass driver. Maybe a try of 2a3 or 300B is worthy. My truely appreciations to you all. This forum makes me feel at home. I am very pleased to be a member of this big family. I will update my progress hopefully soon. Best wishes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 ---------------- On 10/11/2003 3:09:44 AM Arthur Yang wrote: I guess I need to have a SET amp. with high current which could feed crossover and thereafter the mid, high drivers enough power to balance with the bass driver. Maybe a try of 2a3 or 300B is worthy. ---------------- Arthur, glad things are improving! That's a good trend line! If you have a choice of 300 vs 2A3, I think the 2A3 is the better mate to the Klipschorn. With the high sensitivity (104 db), you don't need more power and I think the 2A3 is the more musical of the two tubes. Another tweak to consider ... ALK Engineering crossover networks. I have a pair in my Klipschorns. One of the nice features that Al Klappenberger builds into the networks is options for the squawker (midrange) attentuation if the midrange is too forward in your room. Many of the folks in this forum use them with great satisfaction. You can go to Al's website for more information! (www.alkeng.com and click on the Klipsch corner icon). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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