richr8 Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 I am about to pull the trigger on a new sub. I was quoted $1400. for the Seismic 12 from a local dealer. Is this a good Price? How much better would this be then my DefTech Soundfield 12. My DT falls off the chart at about 40Hz on the Avia disk. The only reason I don't go straight for the PB2+ is the size, and the Sunfire is out of my budget range. My room is about 13 X 17 with 9 foot ceilings open on one end. Any suggestions or comments are appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcoker Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 with $1,400 you can probable the the Sunfire True sub. I got the Mark IV for 1,100. Very small and Very powerful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest klipschomatic Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 I like my RSW-15 that costs around that price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcoker Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 I wasn't pushing the Sunfire but it would be a good choice if size limitation are a problem..Anyways at $1,400 alot of subs come into play including the RSW-15. You should easily get 20% or more off MSRP if you do your homework and negotiate with them. Good Luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelerFan Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 I thought I read on here where the Sunfire will out perform the Seismic12. If you can find it somewhere for close to the same price, you may want to consider grabbing it. Shop around and demo it if possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JewishAMerPrince Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 You may wish to look at SVS's new PC Ultra. It will leave you some change left over from your $1400 and is said to perform not quite but very close to the PB2+. Jerry Rappaport Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabulousfrankie Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 ---------------- On 1/28/2004 11:59:52 PM richr8 wrote: I am about to pull the trigger on a new sub. I was quoted $1400. for the Seismic 12 from a local dealer. Is this a good Price? How much better would this be then my DefTech Soundfield 12. My DT falls off the chart at about 40Hz on the Avia disk. The only reason I don't go straight for the PB2+ is the size, and the Sunfire is out of my budget range. My room is about 13 X 17 with 9 foot ceilings open on one end. Any suggestions or comments are appreciated. ---------------- I'm not sure where the Soundfield 12 falls within Def Tech's lineup but the Seismic 12 gives a good whooping to the other Def Tech subs on the Nousaine list(PF15TL+, Supercube I, and Supercube 2): TN list If you could go with live with a larger enclosure then the most cost effective way to get big bass would be to go with one of the SVS cylinders. If you have to have a small sub then the Seismic 12 is a great subwoofer(just heard it today). I like gcoker's idea as well about the RSW-15 instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richr8 Posted January 30, 2004 Author Share Posted January 30, 2004 Thank you all for the feedback. Frankie, you were right. It's a Def Tech Powerfield 12, not a Soundfield 12. Whatever it is, it still falls off a cliff at 40Hz. I think I am afraid of the size or the PB2+ would be a no brainer, but it's huge! 28" tall!? I have the room for it, just don't know if I want anything that invasive in the room. Same goes for the PC Ultra. I've heard the sesimic 12 and it auditioned well. The only other one I'll be able to audition in town here is the RSW15. I think I will do that tomorrow. It's a lot of money and I want to make sure I get this one right. Ahh, and then their's the VTF3. This is going to be tough. Sure wish there was a way to get a listen on the Sunfire sig. No local dealers though. Oh well, I'll figure it out in the next month or so. My habits include 80/20 HT and music. Here's how it stack up for me right now. SVS PB2+ -If performance was the only issue, this would be it. However,I'd like to find similar performance in a smaller package, at a similar price. A bit more is OK. Sunfire Sig - Can't locate to audition. Not on TN list? Does it really go low enough with authority? RSW 15 - Looking good! I'll have a look and listen tomorrow and see if the dealer will deal. That is what they do. Right? Seismic 12 I like! In the current TN top 10 atleast. Maybe a little light on the bottom end. VTF3 -I like the right ups, but again unable to audition. The size and price look good as well. This would be so easy if only I could find them all side by side to audition. I guess that is what keeps life and the hobby interesting. Thanks again for the tips. Any other words of encouragement or additional advice is welcome. I am new to this, but I don't want to go back and buy another sub in six months when I'm more well versed. I'll cetainly keep you posted on the purchase. P>S> Anyone looking for a Def Tech Soundfield 12? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabulousfrankie Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 The VTF-3's performance is comparable to the SVS CS/PCi line wich means it's a great sub...this is one of the best bang for the buck subs out their and it looks absolutely gorgeous in the rosewood finish. I think the VTF-3 and RSW15 should be at the top of your list, the VTF-3 will not fall off as quickly as the RSW15 below 30Hz but regardless of that the RSW15 should be capable of more clean output through most of their operating range. I've found that even if a sub starts tailing off and but it's output is still clean and loud you won't really feel like you're missing much. After I sold my CS Ultra, I used a sealed Stryke AV15 for a few months. The Stryke was flat to ~30Hz and the SVS was flat to ~15Hz(a full octave lower), but the Stryke is capable of displacing more air and I was missing the SVS like I thought I would. That's the reason I think the RSW15 is so well received by it's owners even though it starts to fall off below 30Hz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kfanfun Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 Actually, the older VTF-3's performance is more in line with the SVS's PC+ line(especially in max output mode), and some have preferred sound quality too. The new VTF-3MK2 should show improvement. The VTF-3MK2 has 40% more power, driver and port enhancements, and is selling for $699 with free shipping. Someone on HTF and AVS is doing a "shootout" for fun, and communicated with Dr. Hsu. Apparently Dr. Hsu has no issue with him comparing dual VTF-3MK2 with SVS's PB2-Ultra. That guy should be having some fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabulousfrankie Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 ---------------- On 1/31/2004 1:26:01 PM kfanfun wrote: Actually, the older VTF-3's performance is more in line with the SVS's PC+ line(especially in max output mode), and some have preferred sound quality too. The new VTF-3MK2 should show improvement. The VTF-3MK2 has 40% more power, driver and port enhancements, and is selling for $699 with free shipping. Someone on HTF and AVS is doing a "shootout" for fun, and communicated with Dr. Hsu. Apparently Dr. Hsu has no issue with him comparing dual VTF-3MK2 with SVS's PB2-Ultra. That guy should be having some fun. ---------------- I've always been under the impression it was it was more inline with the PCi/CS line but I've never really scrutinized it too well so I could be wrong. A shootout between the PB2 Ultra and upgraded VTF-3 should be an interesting read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kfanfun Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 ---------------- On 1/31/2004 1:40:21 PM fabulousfrankie wrote: ---------------- On 1/31/2004 1:26:01 PM kfanfun wrote: Actually, the older VTF-3's performance is more in line with the SVS's PC+ line(especially in max output mode), and some have preferred sound quality too. The new VTF-3MK2 should show improvement. The VTF-3MK2 has 40% more power, driver and port enhancements, and is selling for $699 with free shipping. Someone on HTF and AVS is doing a "shootout" for fun, and communicated with Dr. Hsu. Apparently Dr. Hsu has no issue with him comparing dual VTF-3MK2 with SVS's PB2-Ultra. That guy should be having some fun. ---------------- I've always been under the impression it was it was more inline with the PCi/CS line but I've never really scrutinized it too well so I could be wrong. A shootout between the PB2 Ultra and upgraded VTF-3 should be an interesting read. ---------------- As I read the threads now it looks as thought he has decided to downgrade to the PB2-Plus vs dual VTF-3MK2's....closer in cost and a recommendation by Tom Vodhanel. I wonder why? I would have liked to read about the Ultra. The older VTF-3 with both ports open gains about 3db of output in its operating range, and has been measured flat to 20hz in this mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richr8 Posted January 31, 2004 Author Share Posted January 31, 2004 I am really leaning toward the VTF-3 at this point, however, the only ones I see on the Hsu websight are the VTF-2, and the VTF-3r. There are no VTF 3s or MK IIs? Does anyone one know why they are not listed? The VTF-3R sounds perfect, although for a few hundred less I could live without rosewood and piano black. The performance and price point are exactly what i am looking for though. As soon as i get it sorted out over the regular VTF-3 and Mark II, I'll pace an order. Does anyone have the inside scoop on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabulousfrankie Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 ---------------- On 1/31/2004 1:26:01 PM kfanfun wrote: Actually, the older VTF-3's performance is more in line with the SVS's PC+ line(especially in max output mode), and some have preferred sound quality too. The new VTF-3MK2 should show improvement. The VTF-3MK2 has 40% more power, driver and port enhancements, and is selling for $699 with free shipping. Someone on HTF and AVS is doing a "shootout" for fun, and communicated with Dr. Hsu. Apparently Dr. Hsu has no issue with him comparing dual VTF-3MK2 with SVS's PB2-Ultra. That guy should be having some fun. ---------------- Here's why I say the VTF-3 performance is similar to the SVS' PCi/CS line. These numbers come from Howard Ferstler, he measures from 17ft away,using audible cues to denote the onset of *audible* distortion to his ear in his 3500ft^3 room. VTF-2($449) - 31hz/106___20hz/90dB VTF-3($849) - 31hz/112___20hz/100dB SVS 16-46PC($649) - 31hz/113___20hz/102dB(107dB w/some air rushing through grille noise). SVS 25-31PCi($549) - 31hz/112___20hz/96(25hz tuned) 98(22hz tuned) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heyheyhey Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 The VTF-3 had 115db's at 31Hz when all port plugs were removed, and had lower and flatter frequency response than all the models mentioned above with (or without) all port plugs removed. The review is available for quick read. http://hsuresearch.com/reviews/index.php?id=6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kfanfun Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 Frankie, Do you have the numbers for the PC+ line? Here is the link to the VTF-3MK2: http://www.hsustore.com/vtf3.html Pricing is lower now too: $699 in standard finish (From reading Hsu Research's forum, this is a limited run) $799 in high gloss piano black And here is the latest review of the older VTF-3R: http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_1/hsu-vtf-3r-subwoofer-1-2004.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabulousfrankie Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 ---------------- On 2/1/2004 12:00:54 AM kfanfun wrote: Frankie, Do you have the numbers for the PC+ line? Here is the link to the VTF-3MK2: http://www.hsustore.com/vtf3.html Pricing is lower now too: $699 in standard finish (From reading Hsu Research's forum, this is a limited run) $799 in high gloss piano black And here is the latest review of the older VTF-3R: http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_1/hsu-vtf-3r-subwoofer-1-2004.html ---------------- No I don't have anything for the Plus line, Tom Nousaine or Howard Ferstler haven't gotten a hold of either one of these(to my knowledge at least). Here's some other subs from Ferstler where the numbers can be compared since they measurements were taken under similar conditions: http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?postid=914482#post914482 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heyheyhey Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 How perplexing that the Hsu Research TN_1220_HO numbers are not listed there, and that the VTF-3 with all ports open numbers are not listed there, and that the frequency response measurements are not listed there. I wonder why that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atl#62 Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 I would buy the best REL sub (used) that I could afford. Probably a statium. I have owned just about every sub( M&K Klipsch Vandersteen Sunfire Velodyne Polk) nothing comes close Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richr8 Posted February 1, 2004 Author Share Posted February 1, 2004 I just ordered the Hsu VTF-3 Mk 2 ($699. with free shipping). Out of all the suggestions and research I have done, this unit best met my criteria for physical size, performance, and price. Actually it was a lot less money than I had planned on spending initially, but the higher priced competitors were simlpy too large (a deal breaker for me) or did not extend low enough with power. And the price is amazing! I am very pleased with the unbiased support and feedback I received on this topic while trying to nail this decision. Hsu is a little behind on these units, so I eill report back in mid to later February when i receive the unit and run it through it's paces. Thanks again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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