Which Rega Planet for Cornwalls?

[mobile homeless]

Well, the use of the comma is surely not yours.

kh

[FLKlipscher]

Now an English major too. What next? Is there anything that you are not conversant with?

[mobile homeless]

Well, I can say I am not conversant with the Art of Contradiction, something you have apparently mastered with aplomb in just a short while, proving expert status while still under the Cool Newbie designation. You have also managed to insult several forum members, make doubtful equipment claims, boast complete inexperience and experience on a topic, all within minutes, basically exhibiting nothing more than common TROLL behavior in a 24 hour period.

Let us hope you are not in charge of your polls come next November.

kh

[FLKlipscher]

homelss, you should have a Phd in the afore mentioned.

[No Disc]

Proco,

I own Cornwalls and have sampled the Jolida. I also have owned and enjoyed the original Rega Planet. The original Planet is quite musical and very enjoyable to listen to. Can it be beat? Sure, but in that price range ($300-$400) it is quite good, even better when used with a CD Blacklight.

If you jump into Jupiter territory, there are other choices to consider. I kept my Rega until I auditioned the Cary 308 player. Once I compared the two side-by-side, the Cary showed itself to be a wonderful unit. I encourage you to audition one if at all possible. I puchased my Cary used for around $1000, and now can be had for between $800-$1000.

Audioreview.com is a good site for owner reviews and to get a smattering of feedback. Bottom line, the Regas are nice players, but let your own ears be the judge. Sample a fully broken in Cary if you can, I think you will like what you hear.

- tb

[Parrot]

How does the Rega proprietary chip makes harsh CDs sound musical. Is it magic?

In a nutshell, any CD player that makes a bad sounding recording sound good is an inaccurate CD player. A good CD player will make your badly recorded CDs sound like badly recorded CDs, but it will make you appreciate well recorded CDs even more.

[Deang]

I sold my Bruce Moore gear to a guy with lots of money, and who had went through about a half dozen extremely high priced pieces. A few of things he had tried I had never heard of before, but they were expensive. He told me the best sounding CD player he had ever heard was the Arcam FMJ-23 . However, the new deck is the FMJ-33.

http://www.arcam.co.uk/fmj/products/cd33.html

[coda]

Original versus 2000 comparisons are out there, see Ian White's 2001 review, soundstaging may be improved a margin with the newer Rega players, but some say the musicality of the original has been harder to top. Keep an eye on audiogon, some bargains under $400 eventually come up. Here's Sam's review of the more expensive Jupiter, he liked it..

Stereophile's Sam Tellig

Rega may have been the last hi-fi company on the planet to introduce a CD player. That was the Rega Planet, which I reviewed in June1997, John Atkinson liked it so much he put it on the cover the following February. Astronomical value?" asked Atkinson, rhetorically. well, yes.

The Planet is an appealing player with a rich, full-bodied, dynamic sound. And its top loading mechanism makes it one of the most fun-to-use players on the planet. While I was exploring the Planet, Rega's co-founder, Roy Gandy, told me that Rega would eventually produce a separate transport and DAC. "Not that we're in any hurry," Roy told me at the time.

Rega is never in a hurry. It took them 15 years to introduce their first digital product, the Planet. I was surprised that the separates followed so fast - a wait of less than two years for the Jupiter transport and. lo DAC.

"No yokes about Yupiter," said Lars when he learned I had the Rega separates."

"Why not asked I?"

"Because Victor Savage doesn't like this Swedish stuff. You know, the guy who wrote in to Stereophile the other month." (March'99, p.12)

"There is no 'Victor Savage,'" I said.

"What do you mean?"

*It's an assumed name, I assume. I went on the Internet, couldn't find his phone number or address. I think it's a made-up name."

"Like Sam Tellig."

'Exactly!"

By yiminy (oops), the Yupiter/Yo (Io is actually pronounced EYE-oh, but don't tell Lar) is so good you might say, "What's all this fuss about new digital audio formats? Do we need those extra bits anyway? Do you really want to be like Lars - always yumping into the latest technology, yust to be first?"

I don't know. I do know that if the new digital audio formats establish themselves, it Will take sometime before much software is available. in the meantime, you might want to get yourself a good CD player-or transport/DAC combo. Better yet, buy yourself a turntable. (I have a suggestion later on.)

A little introduction

In case you've been living on another planet, Rega is a small, very independent British company that was established 25 years ago. They're best known for their Planar 3 turntable and RB300 tonearm. Rega's turntables sound so good and last so long (I've heard of Regas being damaged, but never broken) because they're so basic. Roy Gandy doesn't like to overbuild things in order to overcharge customers. Nor does he like to change his product line as often as his socks - the way certain US high-end manufacturers do. The Planar 3 has been in production, with relatively few changes, for over 20 years. I owned one for most of that time.

Rega Jupiter CO transport

The Rega Jupiter CD transport is almost a dead ringer for the Planet CD player same chassis, same top loading design. But the price is $200 more-$995 for the transport versus $795 for the player. Since I knew Rega likes to charge no more than necessary, I asked Steve Lauerman, of Lauerman Audio Imports (Rega's US distributor), how come.

"It costs 20% more to build the Jupiter," Steve told me. There are a lot of differences under the hood that you don't see. The transport is the same Sony mechanism that spins discs in the Planet. "We figured, why change it?" said Rega's Terry Bateman, the chap responsible for most of the company's electronic engineering. "We looked for ways to get more out of the Sony mechanism without doing too much." (Rega never tries to do too much.) "We've improved the power supply to the mechanism itself, over what's in the Planet. We upgraded power supplies throughout. There are twice as many power supplies as in the Planet, despite the fact that the Jupiter is a transport only."

One difference you can see right away is the clamping mechanism, cleverly built inside the transport's top lid, as on the Planet. But on the Planet, the captive puck is molded plastic. On the Jupiter, it's machined from stainless steel and is heavier. I asked Bateman if this might improve the sound. He shrugged. (I could hear him shrugging over the phone, all the way from Westcliffe-on-Sea, Essex.) "Maybe. It looks nicer. People are spending more money, they'd rather see stainless steel than molded plastic."

To use the player, you simply lift the lid - there's a handy finger tab - and place a disc inside the well. If you close the lid most of the way, the viscous damped hinge mechanism will close it the rest of the way for you. The disc automatically initializes and you're ready to hit Play.

One neat feature: You can read the label when you leave a CD in the machine, because part of the lid is made from clear Perspex. Better still, I find that I can load and unload discs quicker than I can with most drawer mechanisms. There's none of the awkward ritual you have with certain top - loading designs, like those from YBA, where you have to fiddle with the puck separately.

There's only one digital out: S/PDIF coaxial. The power cord is captive; those who want to play around with $200 power cords are out of luck. And there's no need to mess with $600 digital cables, either - although that doesn't stop Lauerman, the importer, from doing so. (What do you want -the guy's an audiophile!) When you buy the Io DAC, too, you get a "free" digital cable for Rega by the German manufacturer, Klotz. I like the Klotz a lot meaning I didn't have any other digital cable in the house that could beat it.

Rega is not keen on CD drawers. Nor am I. In fact, all drawers make me uneasy -rather like a zipper on a pair of pants. I much preferred buttons when I was a kid. As Bateman explains, drawers are an unnecessary complication: one more motor, one more power supply, one more thing to break. Drawers, too, make it difficult to get at the transport mechanism if the player needs servicing.

Nor is Rega keen on suspensions. Here's where Roy Gandy comes in the mechanical engineering genius. If you tap the top of the chassis while a disc is playing, the disc will probably skip. But, practically speaking, there is no problem. The entire chassis is supported by four compliant feet. According to Bateman, a CD player's sub-chassis suspension encourages errors and their correction. Better to have the mechanism tightly coupled to the chassis and then decouple the entire chassis. The more error correction, the worse the sound ~ it gets edgy.

There are some disadvantages to top loading. Obviously, you can't stack another component on top of the Jupiter. Nor can you squeeze it into a tight space, by Jupiter. Io, no. You need at least 6" clearance so you can lift the lid and go about your business with the discs. Take care not to leave the lid open inadvertently, lest dust collect on the laser mechanism's pickup lens. But there is an advantage: the lens is easily accessible for cleaning - you won't need a special cleaning disc. Simply use a can of compressed air (sold in computer stores), or a very clean camel'shair brush-the kind used to remove dust from camera lenses.

Fun to use

With most CD players or transports, I find I am indifferent to the machine. I take little or no pleasure in the interface, the way I do when playing an LP - like on my new Rega 25 turntable! Mechanically, most CD players are about as much joy to use as a clothes dryer or dishwasher. I take more pleasure from vacuum cleaners.

I think it's partly a matter of taking away control. (This is one reason I hate automatic transmissions in cars.) With a drawer, a player or transport seizes the disc from you. I'd rather do the job manually, thank you.

How well does die Jupiter perform? Mostly, the Jupiter seems rhythmically right. As some British critics like to say, the Jupiter "plays tunes." I used to dismiss this as mainly a concern of rockers, but the ability to get the rhythm right is a consideration with classical, too. You don't want a Schubert or Mozart symphony particularly a motion machine like... well, the 'Jupiter" symphony - to go limping along, dragging its feet, sounding like it needs a jolt of Geritol. Like me!

Perhaps the best comparison is automotive. Fitting, since Rega's Roy Gandy began his engineering career with Ford. With the Rega Jupiter, the music seems to get where it's going in a more confident manner. It gives you a better ride. It's like comparing a Mercedes with a Ford. Of course -you'll get to the end of the symphony just as fast with a lesser transport. But the ride won't be as enjoyable.

Are there better transports? Damned if I know. I suppose if you want to spend thousands on something like die Swedish pants presser (the Forsell), you might squeeze out a little more in the way of resolution. Hard to beat the dynamics, I would guess. You might want to keep in mind something Gandy told me back when I scoped the Planet. Roy said that certain very expensive transports use relatively common, off-the-shelf CD mechanisms-no more expensive than the Sony mechanism Roy uses for the Rega.

Io dude!

I'm just trying to get your attention. While you could pair the Jupiter transport with another DAC, Io would probably go with, as in the Rega Io DAC. At $795 ($200 cheaper than the Jupiter) it's a bargain. Remember, too, you the Io get the "free" Klotz low capacitance digital cable. Some dealers may try to fatten their profit margins by trying to sell you another cable, if so, tell them Sam told you, "Der Klotz kable ist gut, Herr Rega dealer." It comes "free," packed in the box. (Remember how New York City camera dealers used to try to charge you extra for the case?)

The two units match each other physically. The chassis are similar, except that the Io doesn't have spongy feet. (You might want to add some isolation devices of your own.) But the best reason to buy the two units together is that Rega engineered them to work together. The digital datastream leaves the Jupiter transport via a Crystal interface transmitter and enters the Io DAC via a Crystal receiver chip,

The idea, Bateman told me, "is to get the most out of the coaxial interface between the two units." (Thereby probably making more expensive digital cables unnecessary. just throwing in my two cents.) The Io DAC has two Burr-Brown PCM 1716 DACs working in dual-differential mode. Any errors are summed and canceled. The result is heard mainly as superior resolution - more low-level detail, more of an analog like sense of space. You can almost always tell when dual-diff DACs are working: there's more there, there, more where, there, more air, there. You get more detail. More space.

"Again, we have a power supply for every stage," explained Bateman. "There is a power supply for the Crystal interface receiver chip. There is a power supply for the reclocking stage. And we have separate power supplies for each of the Burr-Brown DACs. Plus another power supply for the analog output stage.

"We use better quality coupling capacitors in the Io, than we do for the Planet," he continued. "We've tried to eliminate coupling capacitors whenever we could, and where we've had to use them, we've used good quality Wima polyester coupling capacitors rather than less expensive, audio-grade electrolytics.11

Bottom line? The Jupiter/lo combo beats the Planet - no contest. As, indeed, such a combination should. We're talking $1790 for the player/transport combo and $795 for the player alone -double the price. But maybe double the pleasure, too. The separates preserve all the things I like most about the Planet, including that incredibly coot top-loading design. The sound is similarly full-bodied rich. And dynamic. There's weight and authority to the sound - a hallmark of Rega turntables as well. Where the combo scores better than the Planet is in resolution.

The DAC does take some time to break in. When I first got it, I noticed a relative lack of openness and airiness. As the unit burned in over the next few weeks, the sound opened up and got more extended on top. Still, the tonal balance tends toward the rich, warm side, as opposed to open, airy, extended, and sparkling - the kind of sound I get from the Rotel RCD 971 CD player.

At $1790, the Rega Jupiter/lo combination comes in at the top end of what I recommend spending for digital now. Still, I think it's worth it. My guess is that the conventional CD will remain the dominant digital audio format for some time to come. As for new formats, you might follow Rega's lead -or lag. Wait a bit. Or wait 24 bits. Wait 15 years, like Roy Gandy or buy a Rega Planar 25 turntable.

My prediction? The new digital audio formats are going to have to use surround sound in order to sell. The average consumer always wants more, more, more - even if it means getting less.' More channels is something the average consumer understands. More resolution is not. For the public, "CD quality sound" equals perfection. I look forward to the digital audio future with fear, loathing, and dread. (When I discussed the more-is-less nature of surround with JA, he pointed out that the joy of two-channel systems is that the whole can be greater than the sum of the parts. With surround sound, the opposite is the case.)

Meanwhile, repeat after me (I'm taking lessons from LA): I do not have to accept surround sound. I do not have to accept surround sound. I do not...

[mobile homeless]

Parrot, to clarify a point, I said the Planet sounds more musical and involving with a more refined and less sibilant top end than 95% of the sub 1K players and processors I have sampled, especially at that time. I have heard BETTER digital but nowhere near that price. My latest look into the low cost SACD area leaves me cold. The Planet is so much better than the low cost Sony redbook players which I dont find particularly engaging and more sterile and strident than refined. The popularity tends to ride with the mass market flood and the name. I know others do like them. I used to own Sony and Philips machines in the past.

Your "magical" posts are getting old and long of tooth, and serve nothing more than poor bait with a belittling tone. As for the facts, Rega did a proprietary implementation of the BURR-BROWN DAC that so impressed the techs at Burr-Brown, the engineering team flew over to England to visit the Rega plant. Does it take CRAP CD's and turn them into magic? No. But it shows that some of the fault lies within the digital implementation, in addition to the poor handling of the digital domain in the studio, especially early on.

The Planet is a very musical player that does the most for the least. It's built VERY well making most of the Sony/Philips mid-priced players seem cheaply made.

NOW.... DIGITAL has some some distance since 98. For a redbook player, I think a quality USED Rega Planet is an excellent buy at $300-350. It's a GREAT matchup with tube integrateds as well. But as I said in the original post, other options need to be weighed in at the $800-1000 area. I need to hear some more SACD and 1 Bit options in the 800-1000 range. The low cost range does not appeal yet in my view.

This post was asking for a comparison between the Rega options. If getting in the $1000 and above range, I would listen to the advice, but go with some listening in a setup where one might know the other characteristics of the chain.

kh

[Parrot]

----------------

On 2/8/2004 12:00:40 PM mobile homeless wrote:

Your "magical" posts are getting old and long of tooth, and serve nothing more than poor bait with a belittling tone.

----------------

Trademark Mobile response. Critique the style of any post that goes against your sacred cows of Rega and SET. BOOOOOOOOOOR-ING. Time for a new act, don't you think?

If you would re-read the thousands of Rega posts on this forum, you would find many instances of people raving about how the Rega makes their harsh CDs sound musical. And I'm hear to tell you that I don't believe in magic. Rega screws with the tone in order to accomplish the sound they want. Whoever likes the sound, fine, I'm glad they enjoy it, but what goes in to the Rega is not what comes out, and that has nothing to do with personal preference.

[FLKlipscher]

Homee regurgitates the same old BS day after day. Like you say PaulParrot, his rhetoric gets real old.

[Parrot]

What kind of Klipsch speakers do you have, FLKlipscher?

[True Audio]

FLKlipscher has never heard a Klipsch speaker.

Paul Parrot has never heard a Rega Planet.

When two trolls collide.

Beautiful.

[FLKlipscher]

I purchased a pair of Heresy yesterday. I would like to procure Cornwall or La Scala in the next week if possible.

[Parrot]

Wow, the return of "True Audio," Mobile's imaginary stalker friend. I am honored.

[No Disc]

Rhetoric or not, Mobile has not inaccurately described the Rega Planet and kept it's value in perspective.

Paul, there are in fact other places where the Rega is well regarded. There are 100+ people who have took time out of there life to post owners comments on the Rega planet over at audioreview.com. Non of them I might add are Mobile.

If you have not had a home trial of the Rega Planet on your own system for a lengthy audition, then you have not seriously evaluated the unit. Sure, purchasing a used unit has it's risks. If purchased from a reputable dealer (i.e. Upscale Audio) your risks are minimal. If Proko were to purchase a used Rega from Upscale Audio to try out, and found it not to his liking, he could simply trade up for full purchase price for another unit.

The "Magic" you mentioned has everything to do with the implementation of the DAC in the Rega and the "clock" used in the processor. In digital audio reproduction, each clock pulse triggers the conversion of a digital sample to analog form. If these clock pulses aren't perfectly uniform - the very defination of jitter we hear the timing imprecision as reduced musicality. The Rega does a very good job to reduce the jitter and bring out the musicality in the CD.

The Planet will not make badly recorded CDs sound better, unless the badly recorded is meant to descibed induced jitter. If a badly recorded CD is bad because it has induced jitter, that a good player with well implimented clock and DAC can, in fact, improve the sound and play the music the way it was supposed to be recorded. If by "badly recorded" you mean the highs are cut off, or distorted waveforms etc. Then no player will compensate for that.

The Rega Planet IMHO is a decent unit in that price category. Risk is minimal if puchased correctly. Since Proco asked about the Regas, Mobile was not out of line to make a recommendation of it.

It's obvious you don't care for the Rega, so instead of taking so much effort to diminish someone elses recommendations, why don't you make some suggestions of your own? Or are you here only to discount what others have to say?

- tb

[Parrot]

I don't take audioreview seriously. There are wild views there all over the place. I'm sure I could find thousands of positive reviews of the worst sounding equipment on earth.

The jitter reduction explanation is your take on the Planet, but not my take.

I don't have to go along with the forced choice: "Out of these three, which should I pick?" I prefer "D: None of the above."

I have made some specific recommendations, but I don't like to be so presumptuous to think that just because I like something, it automatically means that someone else is going to like it. So I prefer to mostly stick with broad recommendations, such as 20 watts minimum for amplification (which is what Klipsch recommends), SACD over CD, new CD players over ones with 200,000 miles on them, that kind of thing. There are countless paths to sonic bliss and no shortage of specific suggestions to attain it.

It is truly absurd to think that only Rega could unravel the mystery of getting CD sound right. But that's the impression one often gets here.

[True Audio]

I will amplify the facts once again.

FLKlipscher has never heard a Klipsch speaker.

Paul Parrot has never heard a Rega Planet.

Do not feed the trolls.

[Parrot]

You should use boldface type or uppercase letters if you really want your message to stand out, Sockpuppet.

[Deang]

I agree that Kelly has kept a good perspective on this player for the money. I mean really, at $300 or so there probably isn't much out there anyways. His point about it mating well with tube integrateds is something to consider too. I do think a nice used 333es could probably hang with the Rega with little trouble. Probably a bit more up front and lively sounding though.

Paul, I don't know what you mean with the screwed up tonality statements. I do think it incorporates a slow roll off filter, but so do many other digital machines. Too many people like the damn thing for it not to sound good.

Who's the new guy? You gotta pay your dues here before you can flame. Contribute something positve for a while and maybe we'll let you play.