doctorcilantro Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 Hi all, I have a Sherwood S-5000 (thanks Ryan! for impecable service) and I have been reading about balanced RCA cable. My sound card has balanced inputs but my S-5000 does not have a balanced output driver etc. Apparently, a balanced RCA cable is not truly balanced. So my question is: Would I gain any benefit at all using a so-called "balanced" 1/4">RCAcable in this situation rather than an unbalanced RCA>1/4". I also have an 8ch mixer that has XLR outputs so I am curious about the same in regards to running the a balanced XLR>RCA from the mixer to the Sherwood. Am I wasting my time...and money here? thanks folks! Jonathan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 ---------------- On 3/5/2004 10:04:09 AM doctorcilantro wrote: Hi all, I have a Sherwood S-5000 (thanks Ryan! for impecable service) and I have been reading about balanced RCA cable. My sound card has balanced inputs but my S-5000 does not have a balanced I am assuing. Apparently, a balanced RCA cable is not truly balanced. So my question is: Would I gain any benefit at all using a so-called "balanced" 1/4">RCAcable in this situation rather than an unbalanced RCA>1/4". I also have an 8ch mixer that has XLR outputs so I am curious about the same in regards to running the a balanced XLR>RCA from the mixer to the Sherwood. Am I wasting my time...and money here? thanks folks! Jonathan ---------------- A balanced cable (whether TRS or XLR) consists of three wires - positive, negative, and ground. The negative signal is an exact inverse of the positive - or 180 degrees out of phase. Both sides pick up the exact same noise along the run. When the signal arrives at the destination, the negative side is phase reversed, then summed with the positive side. This cancels whatever noise was picked up along the way. An RCA cable, by its very definition, is a two-conductor. It's theoretically possible, I suppose, to device an internal (within the wire) system to accomplish this phase-reversal trick. It's also theoretically possible to run a transformer at the end of an XLR cable to convert it to a two-conductor RCA output. However, any benefit gained from the balanced run would quickly be lost through the transformer, unless the run was several hundred feet. All that said, however, there are two-conductor twisted-pair RCA cables out there, that do an effective job of rejecting EMI and RFI. They are not, however, "balanced" RCAs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 hey jon, you mentioned RCA and used it interchangeably with 1/4" and I was wondering if you did that on purpose or not. There are RCA cables, XLR (aka mic) cables and then there are 1/4" cables...as there are no balanced RCA cables, there are however balanced 1/4" cables (also known as TRS...tip ring sleeve). These often look like your 1/8" stereo miniplugs on the end of headphones, but are 1/4" in diameter and are generally used to carry a balanced signal (just like XLR cables do). They can also be used in stereo as well, but that might confuse things a bit here. All that said, if your soundcard has 1/4" balanced connectors, then yes you might benefit from using balanced cables...but that's only if you've already got noise being picked up on the cable. I personally use balanced whenever possible. (btw since balancing a cable is completely a physical process, i don't think you would find a "balanced cable driver"). eeek, after rereading your reply i think i understand your question differently. you used the > to symbolize an adapter ok, the simple answer is no. Because your source is not a balanced signal, just using a simple adapter won't balance the signal. If you really want to run a balanced signal, then you will need to get something like a direct-box, which converts signals from unbalanced to balanced. guitar players use these all the time, but I'm not sure how well it'd work on a consumer level (the impedances have gotta match up which I'm not sure they do). now in regards to running from the mixer to the sherwood, you're going to want to use the balanced XLR>RCA adapter. It shouldn't make a big difference, but it's the "correct" way to do it (i think). Just out of curiosity, what is the big picture of this setup? I heard mixer and got really interested (I mix for a living and spend a lot of time now installing sound systems, which includes some basic recording studios). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 I have both types of the same length, both silver, and I prefer the XLR over the RCA. Slightly "cleaner" with more "air". This is just an opinion. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted March 6, 2004 Share Posted March 6, 2004 Hey doc, nice to see you back. When are you going to get those Cornwalls? You know I have a beautiful pair of zebrawood Cornwalls I'm currently selling. Free shipping to you! Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctorcilantro Posted March 8, 2004 Author Share Posted March 8, 2004 Thanks for all the replies (Greg....I wish I wish...poor man's blues). I have two mixers. One is an 8 channel with 1/4" XLR etc mixer for PA etc. I also have an 8 Channel (4 at one time) DJ mixer. I am all set with Soundcraft mixer; my question arose becuase the DJ mixer has XLR outputs but now I realize they areprobably amplified outs. There are three different pre-outs but all RCA: REC, ZONE, REMOTE. I am planning on using the mixer to output components to my Sherwood integrated, and then to my soundcard for when I want to record a mix or the radio, etc. Also, I have my TT which will archive vinyl; this runs direct into Sherwood phono stage then out to the 1/4" input of my M-audio Delta 44. My question to him was can I get a balanced cable, terminated with 1/4" and rca and have it balanced somehow, these cables are VERY well shielded to begin with but I was just hoping to achieve the best quality possible in this archiving situation....the XLR is not a possablility anymore but what is he saying here, that what I am asking may be possible ...I wonder LOL. "The short story is that you will have a balanced connection at one end, and depending on the equipment, you will either return the cold or 'return' pin at the RCA end, or leave it open (if the balanced equipment cannot handle a short circuit). The cold pin is normally pin 2 of the XLR or the middle ring of the 1/4". So it will be a balanced to unbalanced connector. For the opposite run, you will have to ground the cold pin. There is not an option, as a balanced input can only reference to the cold pin, not to ground. This will in no way harm any of the equipment in question. So you can feed the input of your balanced D44 with an unbalanced output from your TT." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
synthfreek Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 If I'm not mistaken there IS a difference between an XLR to 1/4" TRS adaptor and an actual XLR to 1/4" transformer. The adaptor doesn't truly keep the signal balanced like a transformer does. They look kinda the same so you might wanna check the differences out closely. I could be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
synthfreek Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 Those XLR outs on your dj mixer aren't powered! My dj mixer's XLR outs are jacked directly into 2(r and l) channel strips on my mixing desk. Using XLR to XLR(mic cables) then the XLR outs of the mixing desk to your soundcard with some XLR to 1/4" cables. That will work. You'll just have to not use the built-in phono pre on your Sherwood and use the levels from your dj mixer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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