hwatkins Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 Maron, John Warren, djk, Brennan and all the experienced tweakers/listeners - I will gladly read your driver and horn lens preference for my next box project: The bass will be a jbl 2225h bass reflex (I am leaning toward a box tuned somewhere from 40hz to 55hz - the models I have run seem reasonably good in that range) - I'll decide later if I want to augment with a sub, but since these will be initially dedicated 2 channel I am not sure I will need or want a sub. I will be building a three way and I am gathering data/listening to various drivers and configurations to see what I will be trying. With the 2225h I don't want to cross to the mid any higher than 800hz. The horns will be separate from the woofer box, so I have some room for experimentation. So all of you have free reign to talk to your experiences and preferences - I have seen many of your opinions on tweets and less on mids. In my best of all worlds I would like the driver/lens combinations to perform fairly well a couple of actaves around each crossover point, but one octave can be managed quite well with steep slope Xovers. Lastly - I am saving crossover discussion to a subsequent thread. Al K. has convinced me to do them the right way - build box, configure,test then tweak. I hope you can have some fun at my expense.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 Henry, How big will the bass box be? Are You planning to have the tweets and mids enclosed in a separate box, or exposed somehow? I can't really discuss the technical aspects, but would like to know what it'll look like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwatkins Posted March 25, 2004 Author Share Posted March 25, 2004 Hello fini- I have modeled using the JBL enclosure specs, so it will be a box around 4 cubic feet internal volume. The 2225h is really a 2205 (w/alnico driver) that is reconed with the JBL 2225 kit. The horn secton is a bit up in the air based on how influential folks are responding to my questions. From a 'pretty' standpoint I was initially looking at wood lens (still my preference). To show off the wood lens I would plan on a freestanding (unbaffled - kinda taking a slice from Bruce Edgar) approach, but would most likely enclose the rear of the mid for both asthetics and to house the crossover. If I went metal or plastic on the lens I envision a separate enclosure with baffle akin to LaS, Belle and Khorn that would seem like one box from the 'furniture' perspective. The freestanding wood lens has an issue with the shorter Tweet and how to keep it from standing out without making it look messy. So I could easily (this is without testing and modeling as yet) be convinced to put the tweet in the bass box and show off the mid wooden lens. I am also looking at a coax driver for mid and highs, but I get limited experience from folks on this approach. The exterior would be either oak or cherry with darker (or lighter depending on the wood choices) accents. I may throw in some brass to mount the lens and highlight the finish. It will probably take about 700 bottles of excederin to get through this one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 Henry---Well since you're going 3-way you might as well get the best possible midrange. IME that means the 1.4" throat Altec 288 driver and 1005 tar-filled multicell horn. Some folks think the big Altecs sound very good on the 311 series horns which are smaller and lighter than the 1005, I dunno. But the big Altec compression drivers sound right, better than anything IMO. Another excellent midrange would be a 2440+ series 2" throat JBL on a Bruce Edgar saladbowl. Very nice. A club member has the full-bore, big-hog Edgar Titan and it's excellent and I had excellent results with a saladbowl and 1" JBL drivers. The Fane tweeter that Edgar used works very well and is cheaper than a JBL. Fostex horn tweets sound very good too. Bruce is now very keen on the new 2" throat neodynium magnet driver from Radian. I've heard the Radian 1" drivers and they sound really good so I can believe the 2"er would sound good too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 Henry, if cost is no object the combo of the TAD 4003 wood horn and 4003 driver will go out to 20KHz allowing you to build a two way. http://www.tad-pioneer.com/pna/bsc/category/0,,2076_4211,00.html Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwatkins Posted March 25, 2004 Author Share Posted March 25, 2004 Thanks for the responses Tom and Rick- Rick - as to the TAD - never heard this combination and I do like the looks of the horn. I'll check the lf specs and see if I can find one to listen to. As to price - I am not doing this to save money - gee, my modified heresy center was 3 times the price of a single heresy (don't tell my dear old mother - it will just verify her contention that I shouldn't be allowed to anything by myself). While I really like some two ways, my ear always seems to prefer the idioscincracies of a three way (yeah I know - it is a bear of a DIY from the Crossover perspective). That doesn't mean I won't be swayed. For a look at some very interesting, straight forward horns try Bill Martinelli's place at: http://www.woodhorn.com/prices.htm Bill is one of the good guys if you want to visit. I like his attention to the grain and designs that you get looking straight into the horns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwatkins Posted March 25, 2004 Author Share Posted March 25, 2004 Oops - while cost is not my primary consideration these TAD options or a 'tad' high for my initial considerations... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 Henry, Funny, I'm just now getting in the final peices to construct a Heresy based center speaker. K-700 horn;K-55(atlas) K-77m;E2 x-over and an 8" AR woofer to keep the size within WAF parameters. As long as I can get a clean 80Hz-17Khz I'll be happy. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwatkins Posted March 25, 2004 Author Share Posted March 25, 2004 I made mine along the same lines - everything was one generation older - K77/K55 with type E network. With the help of Trey Cannon I was able to get specs that the E network was built for and to make simple mods to use two fostex 167 sigmas for woofers. The box is tuned for 60 hz and performance is darn nice 70 hz up to highpass. Since I also mange to 80hz for the sub it worked very well. The first three pics on the following page are of the speaker. http://home.earthlink.net/~hwatkins/id63.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 Nice job Henry. Maybe I should use two LF drivers to more evenly center the dialog. I was going to use the driver on one end and port the other. Are those 6" drivers? Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 Henry---Bill Martinelli sent me a couple of his 1" throat horns for evaluation and I must say that I was underwhelmed by the sound. They were kinda "blah" with poor presence and high end. I think he's copying an Eminence or JBL CD horn. Perhaps some EQ would have helped. But IMO and that of a couple of other club members who came over to hear them one can do much better with other horns, all the more so given the very high cost of Bill's horns. Granted they have very nice workmanship but horns are tools and one judges a tool by how well it works. If one is Hell-bent for wooden horns Bruce Edgar's saladbowls are cheaper AND better sounding, that makes them a no brainer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwatkins Posted March 25, 2004 Author Share Posted March 25, 2004 ---------------- On 3/25/2004 4:02:19 PM TBrennan wrote: If one is Hell-bent for wooden horns Bruce Edgar's saladbowls are cheaper AND better sounding, that makes them a no brainer. ---------------- That stuff on Martinelli's is just what I needed Tom - having never heard them it would have been a gamble - thanks. I have heard the salad bowl and was very pleased - I think it had an old jbl 2441 as the driver. I am having some trepidation on how to use it and get the look I want, so I am looking at more traditional rectangular options for now but may have to go to salad bowl in the end (if I can't shake the need for a wood horn). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 Henry---Bruce makes rectangular wooden tractrix horns too and they're cheaper than his saladbowls. Give him a call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwatkins Posted March 25, 2004 Author Share Posted March 25, 2004 ---------------- On 3/25/2004 4:01:54 PM 3dzapper wrote: Nice job Henry. Maybe I should use two LF drivers to more evenly center the dialog. I was going to use the driver on one end and port the other. Are those 6" drivers? Rick ---------------- They are 6.5 inches. The model is discontinued, so finding used may be no problem. They are what I would call 'tweeners'. The Thiel Small specs say they are right on the limit of what you would use for a back loaded horn and not reasonable for a bass reflex. They were interestingly OK for a sealed box that you weren't looking to go real low on. Also you end up paying for a full ranger designed to get up to about 20khz - stuff just not needed (of course I got it used and at a price I felt reasonable). I wired parallel and measured impedence before making the xover changes - these were some simple zobels in line with each speaker. What I got was a blend at the Xover that is very smooth and indecipherable (by ear) from the heresy. It does have a hump around 100hz - I really couldn't figure out why, but it interestingly works well on a center speaker for HT, but over time I have taken it out of the music mix for certain recordings - seems like one out of every 20-30 songs this hump becomes noticable (probably only to me). I made some baffle adjustments after early testing (had a large hump in spl from about 150 - 300hz) that is the probable culprit on the 100hz, but is is a slight hump. For anyone interested I had to angle the speakers toward each other to correct the problem. I cannot specifically recommend this- it was a tad painful to get right. What it does do that my trials with a single heresy didn't is offer a bit more and flatter spl in the 80 - 700hz range - that works well for a center. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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