question regarding LFE in first matrix movie

[Swerv]

Hi, If i could ask a favor from you people with nice HTs and subs. I posted this in the Ht forum but I think it would be more appropriate here. Im currently in a discussion with someone about the openning scene in the first matrix movie where trinity jumps up and kicks the cop, during that scene some guy claims that there is no LFE information at all being sent to the sub and that its only comming out of the surround channels. I have asked several of my friend with HTs to confirm this and they mention that the majoirty of the low bass in that scene (primarily a 35hz tone ) is comming from the LFE channel and that that guys setup must be wack.

If someone could confirm that in that scene there is some LFE content going on that would be great. (first matrix movie btw, when she does the bullettime kick up in the air)

If I remember correctly the way it works is the 5.1 stream sends bass information to all of the channels but the majority in flashy scenes is sent to the LFE channel for the sub to use. correct me if im wrong here especially in this scene.

Thanks again!

[pinipig523]

swerv - i tried it on my system.. there is lfe in that scene. u dont believe me? ask my svs. swerv, the kid doesnt know what he talking about.

[CAS]

That's funny. One thing...I'm sure you can audibly tell (with your own ears) the difference between 100 Hz and 35 Hz. It is possible to direct these frequencies to the surround speakers if set properly, however if what you're hearing from this person's setup is 35 Hz and is coming from the surrounds, then he/she must be using subs as surround speakers and is a home audio wierdo.

Don't take too much advice from this person...

[Swerv]

glad to hear that, i was about to rip my hair out as this guy was about as dense as could be, and everything i said went in one ear and out the other.

[Swerv]

This guy requested that he be further proved wrong and is not satisfied with the above replies. If more people could provide more info that would help, this is what we have so far:

I think what this ignorant sack wants to believe is that there is no LFE content in that scene which is just ridiculous having talked to about 12 people on msn and on forums. Why in the hell would they send a bass signal 35 strong and extending to below 20hz in ONLY THE SURROUND CHANNELS. Obviously It doesnt make sense and i need someone to confirm it.

here is a link to the thread in the other forum at his request.

http://www.3dss-forums.com/cgi-bin/wwwthreads/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=Forum4&Number=137389&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=7&fpart=4

[GRB]

Swerv, My pre-amp has an LED that lights up ONLY when LFE signal is being sent to my subs and trust me, in that scene, it is glowing brightly and almost constantly. The guy either is crazy or has his system set up in a very odd configuration.

[sfogg]

Actually that depends on where in that scene you are talking about.

When she is airborne and the camera is scrolling around here there actually is just about no *LFE* signal.

That doesn't mean there is no BASS. Just that the discrete LFE encoded .1 channel isn't being used. Your sub may be receiving lots of bass from the redirected bass from your main 5 channels. It just isn't getting much/any from the LFE channel. As soon as she kicks the guy the LFE channel jumps up.

Later on in the scene where she jumps through the window and rolls down the stairs again the LFE channel isn't being used until the scene with the phone booth.

See the attached. My processor can show the levels of each channel as encoded on the disc. Its a little blurry as the shutter speed was low but should illustrate the point. The LFE channel (not subwoofer channel) is shown all the way to the right.

Depending upon your processor to actually measure the LFE channel itself you will probably need to set all your speakers to LARGE. This *should* keep your processor from redirecting any bass out your subwoofer output and make it only put the LFE channel out your sub out. Some processors have a dedicated output that will only put out LFE channel bass and not any redirected main channel bass... it spits that out other subwoofer outputs.

Shawn

[Swerv]

It appears we were both right to an extent, I was wrong for saying that the whole scene was also in LFE, as well as surround. He was wrong for saying there was no LFE in that scene.

Basically we got our reference standpoints off by about 1 second and we should of been more clear as to the time. The reason I got worked up was because I took the screenshot at the end of the kick when shes still in midair and kicks the cop the FR registers to below 20hz ( which I doubt any surround speakers could reproduce ) with a very powerful tone at 35hz. He was refering to a half a second to a second before that when the camera was spinning around, so I guess we got a bit unclear to the exact time.

Anyway thanks for clearing this up guys.

[Swerv]

btw here is the original SS i took showing the deep bass when she kicks the cop in mid air.

[Swerv]

update:

Guys ive done what you've all said, tested it over - played back the scene and took a screenshot of when she kicks the cop- this ignorant chump however wants to believe that I changed my argument around completely- thats fine I was after my original argument(trying to support my argument that there is plenty of LFE being sent to the sub during that jump kick"

Saying that there definately is LFE output during the kick and its well below 50hz ( he denys this - and says I took the sound and picture seperately from a different dvd and a different sound source! even after posting this ss)

If one of you could confirm that during that trinity jump scene there is deep bass information being sent to lfe to well below 20hz when she kicks the cop - as indicated here , It might shut the person up once and for all.

please and thank you. I know I was wrong to an extent in saying that the LFE was on for the whole scene, it should have been made more clear as to the exact time I took those Screenies.

THanks for all the replies guys.