Cornwall Mods Glossary

[colterphoto1]

Thanks IB, I appreciate your 'list in order of importance' as well. Looking back over some posts, did you ever rebuild your motorboard to accomodate the Altec horn, or did it necessitate a totally new cabinet? Would like to see pix if possible. That is a pretty groovy looking crossover mount you've got on the April photo of Corn with exterior horns. You're really having some fun with the mods, I see!

Keep on SLAMMIN, yer right, there is NO other term for it!

Michael

[edwardre]

I too have modded my 'walls......the mods are not for everyone, but I sure do like the sound better than stock. These were '83 (I think...they're "Y"s). Didn't like the sound.....too harsh. Had the 'cheaper' components. I had a spare pair of the original "B-type" crossovers. That helped a bit. However, when I replaced the midrange setup (not even K55V's or even M's) with a University SAHF/Cobreflex setup (see attached pic), the sound became clearer and warmer. Bass was helped tremendously by replacing the stock woofers (they wern't even K33's but something with square magnets) with Stephens Trusonic 103LX's (massive brutes). Finally, the tweeters (which were those square magnet 'cheapos') I replaced with University 4401's. Hooked up to my old Dynaco ST70 and Dynaco PAS2, these speakers now will almost bring tears to your eyes. This is now my tube amp 2-channel listening pair.

As a sidenote, I traded the stock 'guts' which I would not wish upon anybody, to a guy down the street for a bone stock 1953 Khorn.

[IB Slammin]

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On 7/29/2004 1:07:35 PM edwardre wrote:

I too have modded my 'walls......the mods are not for everyone, but I sure do like the sound better than stock. These were '83 (I think...they're "Y"s). Didn't like the sound.....too harsh. Had the 'cheaper' components. I had a spare pair of the original "B-type" crossovers. That helped a bit. However, when I replaced the midrange setup (not even K55V's or even M's) with a University SAHF/Cobreflex setup (see attached pic), the sound became clearer and warmer. Bass was helped tremendously by replacing the stock woofers (they wern't even K33's but something with square magnets) with Stephens Trusonic 103LX's (massive brutes). Finally, the tweeters (which were those square magnet 'cheapos') I replaced with University 4401's. Hooked up to my old Dynaco ST70 and Dynaco PAS2, these speakers now will almost bring tears to your eyes. This is now my tube amp 2-channel listening pair.

As a sidenote, I traded the stock 'guts' which I would not wish upon anybody, to a guy down the street for a bone stock 1953 Khorn.

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Come on ed, at least dust that stuff off a little before posting the pix. Were you running a belt sander down there?

Terry

Ps: I think I can see a cigarette butt on the floor in my photo.

[TBrennan]

edward----Those ain't modified Cornwalls; they're custom DIY speakers using a Cornwall box. No doubt they'd sound better yet if you measured the Stephens woofs for TS specs and then designed and built boxes properly dedicated to them, I doubt very much those woofs are working optimally in those boxes. Or have you modded the boxes for the woofs?

[edwardre]

TC - Yeah, yeah, yeah.....! It's the hobby room! The wife isn't allowed in.....

Tom....my rationale was this....the components are all from ORIGINAL pre-60's Khorns, not some cluge of parts acquired from the local swap meet. The size of the bass bins of the khorns have not changed though the components within have. They have changed from Stephens 103LX2's to K33's. From a University SAHF mid driver to the K-55's, and from the University 4401/mid-T tweeter to the K-77's. In other words, the K33, K55 and K77 are direct replacements to the Stephens and Universities. They are likewise indiginous to the Cornwall so it stands to reason that anything a K33, K55 or K77 is in will support the Stephens or Universities, right? Khorn, Belle, LaSacla or CW. Or at least be a close starting point.

So the proclamation that 'those ain't modified Cornwalls; they're custom DIY speakers using a Cornwall box' really isn't quite on the mark......a wee bit of thought went into the project upfront. Using the audio sweep and a rat shack meter, the output is flat throughout the 30hz - 15khz range. I was unsure of whether or not the Stephens could go up the extra 100hz to 600hz with the original "B"-type xover, but there seems to be no problem. Bottom line is one listen will convince.....

Am I missing something? (other than a good 'wipedown'?)

[colterphoto1]

bump-

anybody else??

I'll begin compiling all the drawings, photos, etc soon. Does anybody have any old saved 'threads' on this topic that might have a few other ideas?

Thanks for the input.

Michael

[edwardre]

So TB...no further comments on the use of vintage drivers? I would really like to know if I am travelling down the wrong path or if my thought process did not consider something?

To summarize, I am using drivers that are a direct replacement to current drivers - well actually, it's reversed...the current drivers are a direct replacement for the drivers I am using. All authorized by Mr Paul himself as the original drivers the enclosures were designed to use. The only real difference is that I have substituted a Cobreflex horn for the K600 mid-horn. But that should be OK since I'm using the vintage K500-5000 xovers, right?

The result is (to my untrained ears) a considerable increase in bass....like bass times 10. Tight, forceful, not at all 'boomy'. Bass goes considerably lower without rolling off as well. Pant-flappers. The midrange is very spacious....every seat is in the 'sweetspot' - due to the Cobreflex's. The upper mids and highs are 'mellowed' out...not sibilent and raucous like the K55/K77 combo can be.

[colterphoto1]

so Edward,

What woofers are you currently using in your modified Cornwalls? Also, with the Cobraflex mid horn replacement, did you change the K77 out to something else as well?

Thanks,

[edwardre]

Colterphoto1...I'm using Stephens Trusonic 103LX2's. It is a 15" woofer made from the late 40's to late 50's. The LX2 designation identifies it to be used specifically for Klipsch horn loaded systems (4 ohm impedence). Klipsch offered the purchaser the option of this driver or the Electro-voice 15WK. Around the end of the 50's, early 60's timeframe, both these drivers became unavailable to Klipsch to use in their speaker systems. It was at this time that they switched LF drivers to the more familiar K33 line of drivers. The point being that from an engineering design standpoint, they are suppose to be interchangeable.

[colterphoto1]

This woofer mod wouldn't be anything the rest of us could accomplish easily, given the vintage of your drivers. Would there be any other modern heavy-duty woofers that the engineers in the groups could recommend as 'replacements' for those of us willing to sacrifice true vintage for more slam?

note: I once traded out some EVM15 (L's, I think) from some PA monitors I had while my Klipsch woofers were being reconed. I recall them as having a more powerful sound, probably a rougher response curve, but not having the same transient attach (crispness) of the original woofers. Not a bad mod, but more for the headbangers in the crowd, not for the more critical listener. (I tend to alternately be both, prob need two sets of Corns, hey hey)

Michael

[ram87]

I have a pair of 1980 cornwals the woofers need HELP they are very muddy theses are all stock no mods yet the woofers are k-33s what can i replace them with that will handle more power John

[colterphoto1]

My friend ram, NOrmally operating Cornwalls should not sound muddy. CHeck your HF and MF horns by sticking a sock (literally) in each horn and listening for output from the other. Occasionally the terminals on the internal crossovers get corroded, so all that is needed is to open the back (or take woofer out) to access the innards and check all connections at the crossover. If a horn does not work, don't throw anything away, as new diaphrams can be installed in any of the speakers, much less expensively than trashing it and buying new driver or woofer. email or check on forum if yo need more help. You should not needed bigger woofers, since the Cornwall is 99db with only one watt input, they can easily play overall volume of around 118 db, more than you'd ever want on a continuous basis. If it sounds distorted, something else is probably wrong. Feel free to write.

[IB Slammin]

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On 9/1/2004 8:38:53 PM ram87 wrote:

I have a pair of 1980 cornwals the woofers need HELP they are very muddy theses are all stock no mods yet the woofers are k-33s what can i replace them with that will handle more power John

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Ram, How long have you owned your CWs? Did you just get them or have you moved them into another room? Try everything that Michael recommended. If they still sound muddy, the problem could be your "room".

Regards,

Terry

[Tom Mobley]

The problem could also be that the speakers are out of phase, or that the woofers are wired out of phase in the speakers. That's relative to each other, one wired correctly to the crossover, the other not. That way the woofers would be out of phase even though the wiring is right between the amp and the speaker boxes.

Worth checking because it's so easy and cheap to fix.

[ram87]

Hi guys thanks for the help believe i have a bad woofer has anyone heard of a commercial version of cornwals i heard they were made in the '80's with more powerfull woofers can anyone help also has anyone tryed piezo tweeters John

[colterphoto1]

nix the piezo tweeter idea. No power handling, won't match xover, only used in cheap pa look-alikes. Not a serious contender.

YOU SHOULD NOT NEED bigger woofers. If you're playing Cornwalls at that top of volume, may I suggest a double stack of INdustrial LaScalas with about 500 WPC bi-amped of course, that should do the trick.

Or are you like Ozzie, who has listened to thirty billion decibels for thirty years?

[ram87]

if a speaker is said to be too bright then maby the BASE is TOO weak has anyone looked at it that way????????

John

[Tom Mobley]

John,

>>they were made in the '80's with more powerfull woofers

Woofers do not have power or produce power. They use power produced by some other device. Some need more power than others to produce the same SPL.

Cornwalls are not short of bass unless maybe you want something that sounds like some kids car, vibrating stuff a block away. If that's the case, you may want to re-evaluate the brand of speakers you own, Klipsch are probably not for you since they're engineered around accurately reproducing music.

If you actually have a blown woofer, Klipsch will sell you a new K-33 for around $130 shippped, an excellent value. It performs well in the Cornwall cabinet, which was designed for it.

[colterphoto1]

WHOA, this thread takes me back to my Pre-Klipsch days.

[colterphoto1]

If anybody is working on building CW's for center channel use etc, I have a few K601/K532 horn/driver assemblies, all in good working condition. Michael