D-MAN Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 Dude, of course it's the wire! 12 gauge silver is pretty unusual and I would like to get some rather than making it myself as it sounded like a lot of work. I can refute the nay-sayers with this: I simply changed the fuse in my Khorn crossovers with a 2" piece of 12 gauge "Sound King" brand copper (typical run-of-the-mill cheap speaker wire) using both wires instead of the fuse and got an immediate and noticable change for the better. That got me to experimenting. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good2BHome Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 Danny No offense taken. I figured there would be some flames (or at least some smoke) and I didn't want Dave Mallet (a friend) to be the target. I've also sent you a PM. Dmethe3 I'm not aware of any tweak(s) that are unique to a particular year or range of years between 1962-1981. But hey, I'm ALWAYS willing to learn. I can think of one repair to older Cornwalls, though. Up to some point plywood was NOT used for the 1' x 3/4' strips that the back is screwed into. It was common pine, I guess. The result is that over time it will really dried out and shrink. The result is two(2) significant gaps in each corner which will impact Bass. I'll post a picture example in the next post. Hope this helps Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 D-Man---You refute nothing, you simply assert. How do we know you're not delusional, afterall many audiophiles are. If you want to refute the anti-wire people come up with some data; DBTs or some hard engineering or scientific data. I hope you don't do brake-jobs on people's cars. I hope you're not an engineer and I sure as Hell hope you don't design airplanes. Oh yeah, I forgot the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted July 15, 2004 Author Share Posted July 15, 2004 I am wondering if the dimensions, crossovers or anything else is critically different between Cornwalls, Cornwalls II's and Vertical Cornwalls. That is why I'd like to collect as much data as possible so we can answer these questions up front. In terms of adding 'better' woofers, when I had my 'house fire' pair's woofers reconed, I put EV EVM15B's in their place and they blew all the hair clean off my body. Don't know if they were more efficient or not, probably not as smooth in the lower octaves, but they just plain RIPPED! This was a temporary situation of course, because we all love stock! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good2BHome Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 The attached is a picture (referred to in my previous post) of the back corner of a 1967 Vertical that was for sale in the DFW area about a year ago. I went to see them as a possible buy. As you can see the pine (an assumption) has shrunk and left two 1/8" to 3/16" gaps. This was the case on all four corners. These would be relative easy to repair, but if you don't you have an extra "port" in the back of your speaker of a combined area of about 3/8" x 3/8" or more. This is possible problem for all older Cornwalls where pine was used and newer ones, if an error was made in construction. Is this a good thing? No. Is it easy to fix? Yes. Is it expensive to fix? No. Will it make a difference? Yes. Will you be able to hear the difference? I don't know, but if I had bought them, I would have fixed the gaps! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 Tom, I already proved it in the physical world. You can either beleive what I say is the truth about what I did and what I say the results were or not. I personally don't care - that's your judgement call. However, your pedantic style and name-calling if someone disagrees with you is not a useful response. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 Dman---Proved it to whom, and how? Listen, speakers are machines, machines of the simplest type which were pretty well perfected in the 1930s. Now if you want to say that a certain wire gives "tighter" bass if you want to be taken seriously (by serious people) you better explain what mechanical changes took place. These changes can generally be quantified as changes in damping, response, distortion and output. All are easily measured. So measure and prove. If not then you have to put up with skeptics like me; that's a noted feature of Western Civilization you see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 Colter---(Colter's Hell?)---Back on topic, here's a photo of a CW mod I did several years ago. I substituted a tractrix mid horn from a speaker in the Klipsch pro range for the stock CW mid horn. While at it I moved the tweeter to the outside surface of the cabinet. Subjectively I thought the mod sounded better though that may simply be because I was pejudiced, Berenek's Law you know. It did sound different though, the differences being grounded in such mundane facts as a different dispersion pattern and the wave-launch quality of tractrix horns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 Another photo. I traded these speakers to a friend for a pair of Altec 605As. He now uses them as monitors in his home studio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good2BHome Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 ---------------- On 7/16/2004 10:58:14 AM TBrennan wrote: Colter---(Colter's Hell?)---Back on topic, here's a photo of a CW mod I did several years ago. I substituted a tractrix mid horn from a speaker in the Klipsch pro range for the stock CW mid horn. While at it I moved the tweeter to the outside surface of the cabinet. ---------------- It's not clear to me if you retained the K-55 or another driver was used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 2B---I replaced the horns but not the drivers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted July 17, 2004 Author Share Posted July 17, 2004 TBrennan, Good of you to make the connection with Lewis and Clark explorer John Colter. Colter's Hell comment. We believe there may be a family link. Also see Mary Colter photographer at Grand Canyon, same era. Back to mods... How did you get the tweeter to surface mount like you did? Did it involve disassembly of magnet structure from horn? I understand that Klipsch has a 'z' bracket to obtain a similar surface mounting. I'd like to pass along the simplest method that doesn't involve too much woodworking (ie routing out the back of the motorboard) or disassembly of any components. What was the model number of the tractix horn you used in your mod and in what ways would you say it improved the sound if indeed the same drivers were used? Thanks for all the input gang, Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted July 17, 2004 Share Posted July 17, 2004 Michael----By the time I'd cut the hole for the new, larger midrange horn the new mid horn hole ran right into the tweeter hole, they became a single, stepped hole. So I simply slid the tweeter up from the bottom, from the larger part of the hole. Thus I avoided disassembling the T-35 or using brackets. I don't remember anymore what the horn part number was, it was a part from a 15" woofered 3-way Klipsch Pro used to make, a sort of a pro Cornwall you might say. I think the mod softened the tendency towards stridency in the midrange and it gave a more diffuse sound image. As I said, whether these were actually improvements or not I can't say but the speakers sounded better to me, maybe simply because I thought they should. I dunno, I like the Altecs I traded them for better anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IB Slammin Posted July 18, 2004 Share Posted July 18, 2004 Going down the list of known CW mods (without changing the bass bins) and trying to be objective about improvement.........IMO, in my room and to my ear: Bracing the back > YES! Dampening the K-600 > YES! Dampening the K-77 > NO Dampening the K-33 basket > NO Bracing the motor board > NO ??? Xover upgrade > YES!!! 12g Monster @ Xover > NO 12g Monster to speaker > Yes/ NO? .. just different Altec 511b W/ Altec 902-16A Driver....YES!!!! ..Cures the inherent CW mid-range rasp ..Sweet Spot is everywhere, cleaner, tighter slam. Again, IMHO...... Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted July 18, 2004 Share Posted July 18, 2004 "In terms of adding 'better' woofers, when I had my 'house fire' pair's woofers reconed, I put EV EVM15B's in their place and they blew all the hair clean off my body. Don't know if they were more efficient or not, probably not as smooth in the lower octaves, but they just plain RIPPED! This was a temporary situation of course, because we all love stock!" I would have left them in there, but that's my opinion. I'm using a Fostex lab series 15's in my Cornwalls, though I should swap back and forth from the K-33 to see the differences. And also run a VTVM and a audio oscillator with the fostex 15's in the Cornwall's, to see where the vent tuning falls in. I dunno, I like playing with my 3,3 and a half foot volume cabinets with Lafayette/Criterion 100B 10 inch woofers, tuned to around 35, 37 Hz or so with dual ports. Stuffed with Dacron. I been running these full-range, with JBL 075's for tweeters in a two-way setup. I've used Selenium slot tweeters as well. I have a pair of Usher dome tweeters, which sound pretty damn good to me, too bad they are too inefficient for the weeny amps I have. The JBL's are hard to tame, but I like what they can do... Eventually, I'll ponder out a decent passive crossover with a Zobel circuit for the woofer. I could say piss on it and use a Audio Control 2-way crossover parked before the tube amps. Bi-amp with one amp on the woofers, and another on the tweeters, and noodle around for the right center frequency. And ya know, it really sounds like sh*t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted July 18, 2004 Author Share Posted July 18, 2004 yeah, Mike S. that's exactly what I use, an Audio Control 2x10 xover in the pre out/main in loop of my Yamaha receiver. Bass/treble controls just aren't enough. Has anyone experimented with changing out the 'batting' in the Cornwall enclosure or stuffing it with insulation. Probably not wise, but just asking! Those 511B's sure must make an awesome Cornwall stack! Do ya still use the tweeter and is the crossover modified for the new horn or is it just the 511 horn with Klipsh driver? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted July 18, 2004 Author Share Posted July 18, 2004 sorry, reread the 511 post and it is ALtec drivers. question still stands, did you modify the xover and how? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IB Slammin Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 ---------------- On 7/18/2004 9:00:16 PM colterphoto1 wrote: sorry, reread the 511 post and it is ALtec drivers. question still stands, did you modify the xover and how? ---------------- Michael, The K-77s are mounted above the 511s. The crossovers are the same ones that I used with the K-600 & K-55s so they still cross at 600. Mr. Ellis did the original up-grades for "in box" use. Once I removed them from the CW, I re-wired and cleaned them up. Painted the boards etc. WAF. The new wire looks a little cleaner IMO, but thats all. I could not hear any difference. I will try to pull up a X-over photo. Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted July 24, 2004 Author Share Posted July 24, 2004 Just bringing this back to the top. Aren't there any more Cornwall modifications that have been made? Thanks for input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IB Slammin Posted July 24, 2004 Share Posted July 24, 2004 ---------------- On 7/24/2004 10:00:04 PM colterphoto1 wrote: Just bringing this back to the top. Aren't there any more Cornwall modifications that have been made? Thanks for input ---------------- There was a post in the old "odds & mods" called VOT Inspired Cornwalls. The boxes were shaped to fit into a corner (same cf as the CW (?) to accommodate an extended length mid range horn such as the Altec 511b or its EV, JBL counterpart. Again, IMHO best bang for the buck...... 1) Upgrade the X-over with newer or better components 2) Brace the box 3) Dampen the K-600 4) Replace the K-600/K-55 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.