D-Rex Posted July 18, 2004 Share Posted July 18, 2004 Which do you prefer? Where are good, reliable, and affordably priced amps located? Thanks, D-Rex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scp53 Posted July 18, 2004 Share Posted July 18, 2004 I have never used a external amp for a sub. it would be better in some ways because you'll have less to rattle and it will weigh less too. I thought you were going with a klipsch,yammie,or velodyne. now you want you amp seperate? svs sells amps, so does partsexpress.com. but PE doesn't have any that are meant to be external. they have like 3 different ones that would interest pwr wise- 250,500 and 1000 watts rms into 4 ohm amps. the 500wt cost $300 and the 1000wt is $400. these are marked down though: 500wt specs reg price- $500 * High power class AB output stage * Patented tracking downconverter power supply * Full parametric bass EQ * Phase reversal switch * Advanced soft clip circuitry * Toroidal power supply transformer * Auto On/Off * Power output: 273 watts RMS @ 8 ohms, 540 watts RMS @ 4 ohms * S/N ratio: 98 dB (A weighted) * Crossover: 30 - 200 Hz, 24 dB/octave 1000 watt specs - reg price: $600 # High power Class AB output stage # Patented tracking downconverter power supply # Full parametric bass EQ # Phase reversal switch # Auto On/Off # Advanced soft clip circuitry # Toroidal power supply transformer # Power output: 512 watts RMS @ 8 ohms, 1024 watts RMS @ 4 ohms # S/N ratio: 98 dB (A-weighted) # Low-pass crossover: 30 - 200 Hz, 24 dB/octave # Auto On/Off heres a link to all PE's plate amps- http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?webpage_id=3&SO=2&&DID=7&CATID=43&ObjectGroup_ID=505 good luck scp53 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted July 18, 2004 Share Posted July 18, 2004 Passive always meant to me that the subwoofer was driven by the main channels. If the subwoofer is driven by a separate amp, whether in the subwoofer cabinet or external, IMHO it is powered. In this context, passive is simply a tradeoff between convenience and performance. Powered is the way to go. It gives the main amps a chance to do a better job with their program material, and the subwoofer amp can be matched to the job. IIRC my main channel amps are rated about 80 watts. My sub amp is rated at about 300 watts. If what you are wondering about is whether having the amp in the subwoofer or external is better, IMHO external is best. Fewer sources of mechanical noise, if you need a bigger or better amp, you just change it. Shorter run of line level cable between receiver/processor and amp, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Rex Posted July 18, 2004 Author Share Posted July 18, 2004 ---------------- On 7/18/2004 11:46:34 AM Scp53 wrote: I have never used a external amp for a sub. it would be better in some ways because you'll have less to rattle and it will weigh less too. I thought you were going with a klipsch,yammie,or velodyne. now you want you amp seperate? svs sells amps, so does partsexpress.com. but PE doesn't have any that are meant to be external. they have like 3 different ones that would interest pwr wise- 250,500 and 1000 watts rms into 4 ohm amps. the 500wt cost $300 and the 1000wt is $400. these are marked down though: 500wt specs reg price- $500 * High power class AB output stage * Patented tracking downconverter power supply * Full parametric bass EQ * Phase reversal switch * Advanced soft clip circuitry * Toroidal power supply transformer * Auto On/Off * Power output: 273 watts RMS @ 8 ohms, 540 watts RMS @ 4 ohms * S/N ratio: 98 dB (A weighted) * Crossover: 30 - 200 Hz, 24 dB/octave 1000 watt specs - reg price: $600 # High power Class AB output stage # Patented tracking downconverter power supply # Full parametric bass EQ # Phase reversal switch # Auto On/Off # Advanced soft clip circuitry # Toroidal power supply transformer # Power output: 512 watts RMS @ 8 ohms, 1024 watts RMS @ 4 ohms # S/N ratio: 98 dB (A-weighted) # Low-pass crossover: 30 - 200 Hz, 24 dB/octave # Auto On/Off heres a link to all PE's plate amps- http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?webpage_id=3&SO=2&&DID=7&CATID=43&ObjectGroup_ID=505 good luck scp53 ---------------- I am still waffling between buying a used pair of RF3's and a cheaper sub, or going with a more expensive sub and using my RB-5's as mains for a while. It would be easier to figure out if one of my RB-5s weren't damaged during shipping. Right now I only have one hooked up with the other one waiting for FedEx to pick up to be replaced by insurance. Now, there is a passive sub that has come into the picture so I am trying to learn a little so I can fully consider my options. If I drag this out enough it could be Christmas! Thanks for the info, Dallas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardhead Posted July 18, 2004 Share Posted July 18, 2004 It's my opinion that a separate external amp (2 channel), as opposed to an amp integrated into the subwoofer, is the best way to go because that setup gives you so much more flexibility, even though it may cost a little more initially: You'll find a larger selection--and higher quality--in external amps. If you ever decide to upgrade either your subwoofer or amp or to purchase an additional subwoofer, as many people eventually do, you won't have to pay for both all over again as you would with an internal amp. If you have a home theater, you could drive the center speaker with the unused channel of the subwoofer amp. You can also incorporate the external amp into your system in an emergency (another amp out for repair, for instance) or as part of a plan for growth. Many internal amps stay in "sleep" mode until a bass signal comes along to "wake" them and cause them to transmit a signal. Some internal amps are slow to respond to the wakeup signal and consequently don't transmit the leading edge of the initial signal. The first part of the "whump" or "boom" is audibly lost. External amps don't go into "sleep" mode. The above are some advantages off the top of my head. There are others. One last piece of advice: don't try to go too cheap, or you'll be buying another amp before you know it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scp53 Posted July 18, 2004 Share Posted July 18, 2004 Id use the rb 5's for mains. and then get a better sub. like how much more will you spend on a sub? would you consider making your own passive sub? I know for a fact that you can get better performance from a DIY sub than a prebuilt passive. goodluck scp53 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Rex Posted July 18, 2004 Author Share Posted July 18, 2004 ---------------- On 7/18/2004 7:30:29 PM Scp53 wrote: Id use the rb 5's for mains. and then get a better sub. like how much more will you spend on a sub? would you consider making your own passive sub? I know for a fact that you can get better performance from a DIY sub than a prebuilt passive. goodluck scp53 ---------------- If I go the cheap sub I would probably get the Sony 150W for about $160 and use it until next summer when I expect to have more funds available. If I do this then I can purchase a set of used RF-3s for about $525. That is the plan my wife wants. If I went the other way I would have approximately $650 to spend on a sub but the ones I want are just a tad more than that... On the DIY topic, I have a 12" Dayton subwoofer speaker (speaker only). I bought it originally for a car but would it work for a home theatre sub? Is What if I bought a 15" speaker and placed them both into one cabinet with a 500W external amp? Could I do that? I love working with wood so that part would be no problem... Thanks, D-Rex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scp53 Posted July 18, 2004 Share Posted July 18, 2004 I say DIY all the way- and you already have a driver. tell me which Dayton sub you have- is it a quatro, dvc, titanic or...? and what 15inch would you want to get? I think your best bet would be either to run both in seperate chambers- same cab- full range(ported,sealed??). but maybe you could do some crossover work and have the 12 do the higher parts and the 15 ultra low bass..? but I personally feel get ONE good sub driver and a amp. multiple drivers will work but can cause more problems. if you really want to use dual drivers, buy a identical sub as you already have(figuring that the driver is suitable for car- which I think it is). this will make sure that there perfectly matched. where would you buy the 500 wt amp? if u use that kind of power the driver needs to be more sensitive to get something out of it... like those titanics(i have one), the only reason u need a lot of power is to make up for there lower sensitivity. good luck. make sure to tell us what driver you have. scp53 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Rex Posted July 18, 2004 Author Share Posted July 18, 2004 ---------------- On 7/18/2004 10:05:44 PM Scp53 wrote: I say DIY all the way- and you already have a driver. tell me which Dayton sub you have- is it a quatro, dvc, titanic or...? and what 15inch would you want to get? I think your best bet would be either to run both in seperate chambers- same cab- full range(ported,sealed??). but maybe you could do some crossover work and have the 12 do the higher parts and the 15 ultra low bass..? but I personally feel get ONE good sub driver and a amp. multiple drivers will work but can cause more problems. if you really want to use dual drivers, buy a identical sub as you already have(figuring that the driver is suitable for car- which I think it is). this will make sure that there perfectly matched. where would you buy the 500 wt amp? if u use that kind of power the driver needs to be more sensitive to get something out of it... like those titanics(i have one), the only reason u need a lot of power is to make up for there lower sensitivity. good luck. make sure to tell us what driver you have. scp53 ---------------- It is a 12" Infinite Baffle Dayton subwoofer speaker. Everything else you said is much like Greek to me. From what you said I presume the actual speaker (portion with the magnet) is the driver. If that is true there is a 15" driver from a Klipsch RSW-15 on Ebay that I would bid on. One sold a few weeks back for $200. I was thinking of the RSW-15 sub when I was mentioning placing both "drivers" in the same box. I was wanting to attempt to recreate what I felt at Ultimate Electronics a few weeks ago (when I first heard the RSW-15) by placing two "drivers" in my DIY sub. Ported? Sealed? No clues what you mean here. But, with each conversation with you I gain a little more each time. Thanks, D-Rex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scp53 Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 It is a 12" Infinite Baffle Dayton subwoofer speaker. Everything else you said is much like Greek to me. From what you said I presume the actual speaker (portion with the magnet) is the driver. If that is true there is a 15" driver from a Klipsch RSW-15 on Ebay that I would bid on. One sold a few weeks back for $200. I was thinking of the RSW-15 sub when I was mentioning placing both "drivers" in the same box. I was wanting to attempt to recreate what I felt at Ultimate Electronics a few weeks ago (when I first heard the RSW-15) by placing two "drivers" in my DIY sub. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- first off, to use that driver(rsw 15) correctly, u need to have the passive radiator too(part that is unpowered- no magnet, just suspension). and second, the amp from klipsch on that sub is eq'd, in other words- if you got both the rsw 15 and its identical passive radiator but used a regular amp, the sound wouldn't be natural- there would be peaks and dips in the freq response. Ported? Sealed? No clues what you mean here. But, with each conversation with you I gain a little more each time. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- you don't know what a ported sub is . shame on you . just kidding. a ported sub would mean placing the woofer(driver) in a box with a port- gives more output but not as tight. a sealed(air/acoustic suspension) sub is one with no opening for air- has less output and is quicker and tighter. and i can't remember which box type gives the lowest extension...I think the ported has lower extention(plays lower hz). but the ported rolls off slower but starts sooner. someone will need to correct me on this. my recommendation is- opt #1: buy the rsw 15 woofer ONLY if you can get a matching radiator(i checked ebay right now- one rsw 15 but its a POS. looks like its broken) my recommendation- don't use klipsch's drivers for a sub unless you know ALL the specs for the cab and amp. otherwise you could end up with a bad sounding sub. that rsw 15 woofer is nice, but it is ABOSOLUTLY necessary to use it in the correct cab/amp. *******opt #2*******- call parts express and see if that infinite baffle sub is any good for cabs. I beleive that the one you have is supposed to be mounted in a wall. so maybe you'll have to get a new driver... I would recommend a dvc or quatro woofer(s). how loud do you need it? for 650 green ones, you can get a titanic 15inch mk3 sub with a cab and 1000 wt rms amp. I think you already know, I have the 10 inch model. I really like it as long as the amp doesn't clip. Im sure that the titanic 15 would be fine for you. it can give you around 115 db in room! thats pretty darn good- considering it has only one driver and no ports. very tight. and the build quality will be right up with the rsw's- at least close. I have weighed the 10 inch woofer and its 19lbs. tells you right away its well built. has a very long stroke vc and vented well. nice 12-16 spoke basket. surround is large and its made in the USA- imagine that. I would strongly consider this sub. for 650 its a steal. and if you still want more out of it, just port it. but porting would mean you need to get a whole different box. ported vs sealed can give you around 3db more spl. actually I just checked.. the price is 688 with free shipping. only 38 more than 650. goodluck scp53 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scp53 Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 D-Rex, just tell me if Im not specific or informitive enough. hope im helping you out... scp53 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scp53 Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 just checked your room specs, 12' x 16'... that 12 titanic will be fine. is your floor cement or is it elevated. trust me, this can make a big difference in its shaking ability. if you can afford it though, get the 15inch- won't have to push it as hard to get the spl you want. Im writing all this thinking you want to go diy. is this the case? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Rex Posted July 19, 2004 Author Share Posted July 19, 2004 ---------------- On 7/19/2004 1:26:08 AM Scp53 wrote: just checked your room specs, 12' x 16'... that 12 titanic will be fine. is your floor cement or is it elevated. trust me, this can make a big difference in its shaking ability. if you can afford it though, get the 15inch- won't have to push it as hard to get the spl you want. Im writing all this thinking you want to go diy. is this the case? ---------------- I am currently in a house with crawl space but I will most likely be in a cement slab floored house within the next few years. This house rocks when someone is walking, I can't imagine how badly the foundation will crumble with the sub I want to buy/build! I would love to go DIY, but, it is extremely obvious I have alot of learning to do before I do. I am used to working with 3/4" plyboard, what is the best material to use to build the housing for the sub? @@@@@@@(I have went and seen they actually sell the kits with cabinets for the sub and everything... very handy! Is that what you used for your sub?)@@@@@@@@ How do I know what dimensions to use? Which is best, down firing or front firing? I have been focusing on the front firing models because it seems to shoot the waves at you but that could have just been the RSW-15. @@@@@@ I think I would love the Titanic 15" but I would probably want to build my own cabinet and place a finish that I would want on it. Is that what you did or did you go with the pre-built cabinet? @@@@@@@@@ Did you build yours with little spiked feet or some kind of legs to elevate it off the floor? (If yours is a down firing you obviously did this.) Do you have any pictures to show your style? Yo have been a world of help so far and actually have me believing I can build this thing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Rex Posted July 19, 2004 Author Share Posted July 19, 2004 Thanks for your opinions Malcom and hardhead (no offense), I am definitely leaning towards the external amp now. I was liking it before just because I could put those amp controls closer to my stereo components but you guys offer some good reasons beyond that as well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scp53 Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 read post below. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scp53 Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 the best material is mdf, either 3/4" or thicker. my sub is one of those kits. I would have built the cab but it would be more expensive- at least I thought it would be. being that you might possibly use this sub later in a basement, you'll want something bigger than a 10" driver. how much do you want to feel it? average shaking or do you want something that will tear your basement apart . for a basement- for sure do it ported. Ive heard some very good things about the dayton DVC 15 inch- $132. is cab size a factor? if you built a ported cab and with this driver and got a 500 wt or 1000wt amp, you'll have some very good bass. as for front or down firing- can't speak to what works the best. from a longevity point of view, the front firing is better. down firing ones can get suspension problems. thats because its always hanging down. Id recommend front firing because it will last longer and like you said, seems to put out more. all those titanic kits are front firing. you said you like the 15inch titanic but want to build your own cab. that would be fine but you'll spend more $$. the driver cost 200, amp is 400, cab 25-100, spikes 20, grille/fabric/paint/etc-$20-80. so you see it is more money- at least if you care about cosmetics it is. if you build it with a different wood, Im not sure how well it will work. if you build it with oak/etc, to help reinforce the cab(even though you still braced it), use some fiberglass epoxy stuff at a auto store. you just mix the two liquids togather and than coat the inside. like 3-5 layers. ive never done it but someone I know says it works really well. the titanic 15 is more quality and more money. the dvc 15 has more output and is cheaper. both will play very well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsmyforte Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 check out this driver. it was made by an OEM company who designes some VERY impressive sub drivers for other manufacturers. http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=299-660 a sub cabinet shouldn't cost more than $100 total to make. two sheets of 3/4 MDF double up your front wall thickness to 1.5", box of screws and wrap it in your choice of vinyl. there are some free software programs out there that can help you with box design, but what you MUST know is the T/S parameters are accurate before you design an enclosure. generally you can be 20% + or - in volume and still be within 2db of the optimum output when your talking sealed boxes. you might pick up the book bullock on boxes for a good read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Rex Posted July 19, 2004 Author Share Posted July 19, 2004 double post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Rex Posted July 19, 2004 Author Share Posted July 19, 2004 How is this for a plan? Buy the 15" Titantic (around $220 with shipping.) Buy the Samson S1000 ($359 with shipping at americanaudiocenter.com) $150 for cab, spikes and grill. This is a little more than the kit but I get an external amp and a box that I can refinish as I wish. It seems I could go ahead and buy the driver and get to work building the cabinet and then pick up the amp next month, spacing out the costs a little. Am I missing anything that would add any significant additional costs? Man, I am really liking this idea but I gotta be missing something else... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Rex Posted July 19, 2004 Author Share Posted July 19, 2004 ---------------- On 7/19/2004 3:30:21 PM itsmyforte wrote: check out this driver. it was made by an OEM company who designes some VERY impressive sub drivers for other manufacturers. http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=299-660 a sub cabinet shouldn't cost more than $100 total to make. two sheets of 3/4 MDF double up your front wall thickness to 1.5", box of screws and wrap it in your choice of vinyl. there are some free software programs out there that can help you with box design, but what you MUST know is the T/S parameters are accurate before you design an enclosure. generally you can be 20% + or - in volume and still be within 2db of the optimum output when your talking sealed boxes. you might pick up the book bullock on boxes for a good read. ---------------- I checked it out but I cuoldn't find it in a 15" version. That seems to be a great discount off the MSRP but it seems the Titantic would still give me the bigger "bang" for the buck. I will certainly pay close atteniton to the guidelines when building the box which might mean I am back here asking more questions. Thanks, D-Rex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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