Help a Newbie select his setup

[Sosa]

I'm a newb with Home Theater sound and was wondering if you guys/gals can lead me in the right direction? Right now I have a 65" Mitsubishi widescreen, PS2, DirecTV/DishNetwork and want to get a new dvd player/receiver/and surround sound. If you can start me out anywhere I would really appreciate. Name what I should look into and a estimate on the cost please. Would like to go with Klipsh but if something is better for the value that is fine too.

Thanks

[skonopa]

----------------

On 8/20/2004 8:22:18 PM Sosa wrote:

If you can start me out anywhere I would really appreciate. Name what I should look into and a estimate on the cost please. Would like to go with Klipsh but if something is better for the value that is fine too.

Thanks

----------------

Budget? Room size? Do you mind going used or want to stick with brand new? Does the size/shape of the speakers matter, i.e. full towers, bookshelf sized or the little satellites?

If budget is no limit, and you got the space and the proper corners, using the big Klipschorns and the other large heritage would probably be the ultimate. At the other end of the spectrum, if you got a very limited budget and space is huge concern, then a set of the ProMedia 5.1 Ultra with the DD 5.1 would be a very cheap, but decent sounding solution. Of course, there are any number of solutions in between these two extremes.

[Sosa]

The room is kinda like a living room then goes all the way back to the kitchen which is 13 ft wide and 24 feet in lenth. Bigscreen is back in one corner at a angle but I can move to the center of the wall facing the lenth of the room if it will sound better. I would like something better then the Pro Media. I don't mind spending the money if you can give an idea on what to look for. This is mostly for movies/ps2 stuff and not as much music.

[Scp53]

welcome to the forum. first off let me say that you can't go wrong with Klipsch. In my opinion Klipsch is the best for the money, as long as you like horns.

what is your price range?? $1000 for the whole thing and a receiver/DVD player. $2K? $3K,$4K,??? I will say this as for what Series to go with- go with Reference for sure. they are so much clearer and more detailed(and many other better things) then the synergy series(not that synergy speakers are unclear). I have experienced this first hand. had synergy sb3's(8" bookshelf-synergy) and went to rb25's(6.5" bookshelf-reference) and the difference it HUGE for detail, clearness, imaging, soundstage, etc.

now as to what reference, I have to ask how big is the room? if its anything more than small, like bigger than 15x15feet, then go bookshelf and/or floor standers. for starting out probably get bookshelf. its not real expensive and will work for small to med rooms. floorstanders are much more pricy and have more benefits but for just starting, Ill say again that bookshelfs are a better option.

Id say a bookshlef surr. system that can handle big and samll rooms consider the rb35's and matching surr speakers and center(around $1500 +/- 150 depending on sales). if thats too much the rb25s and matching speakers($1100 or so). this is just 5 speakers and no sub pricing. for a sub theres no such thing as to much power(if the sub is way more than you'll ever need then its less hard on it. more subage also give you more headroom) so buy what you can afford. this what Id concentrate money on if theres $$$ to spare. svs is good for the money and so is hsu. (svsubwoofers.com and hsuresearch.com)

receiver/dvd player. denon units are good with Klipsch for starting out and so is the new panasonic digital amp receivers. I ll leave this area to someone else that is much more knowledgable.

hope this helps. make sure to tell us a budget for everthing as a whole or individually and the room size/and shape, and if the room is on a cement floor(basement usually) or wood joice. this can affect a subs shaking ability IMO. I have experienced this with my titanic mk3 sub. really shakes upstairs but down stairs(basement) its pathetic(still shakes but much less).

scp53

edit: ****, i was replying and you posted before me. i have to go but will repost later.

[Sosa]

Thanks for the reply, the room is in the basement, and is around 13X24 or so in size. I'm leaning towards spending 2-3k for something sounding very good. I would like something that the 2 speakers that would on the side of the tv would be up on some floor mounts, and then the 2 for the back perferably mounted on a wall or standing behind on mounts. A nice center channel and sub. Any other info you would like?

[Scp53]

I have done some quick homework on what you should get at this late hour(11:14).

here are a few options that are right in your budget range maybe, at most $3300-3500. I ll list a price with it

so here it goes(where to buy is optional on some components):

option #1:

mains: rb25's $400

center: rc25 280

rears: rb25's $400

rsw 10 sub- $1000

receiver- denon- not sure of model but somewhere in $500 range

DVD player- again not sure but I allowed $250 which should be sufficient

wires, cable, stands,

- speaker wire- $150 for all (with bananas/pins)- buy from partsexpress.com, bluejeanscable.com or some other place. what ever you do, don't buy monster cable or the like. getting some cheaper 10-16 guage is what you want. this cable shouldn't be dirt cheap but not expensive either. Ill comment on this later on a different post.

- rca, optical,etc interconnect can be made or bought cheap. again don't get name brand stuff. those same retailers above have good, low priced cables that will do the trick.

stands- partsexpress.com has some decent stands at ok prices. look around for this one. maybe build your own??

so that adds to 2830 + wires/interconnect and stands($250-$400?) so $3080- $3230.

another option- #2(probably the best for the money) :

mains: rf25s 800

center : rc25 280

rears: rb25s 400

sub:mkIII titanic 15"/1000watt rms sub kit(very easy to make in 30-45minutes)

buy this at partsexpress.com for $688. VERY GOOD DEAL. I have the 10" kit and its VERY good for the money. this sub(titanic 15) would beat that rsw 10 for sure.

all this plus the money spent above for the receiver/dvd/interconnect/ wires/stands.

price- similar to above but slightly more.

other options past the second ones would be changing surr speakers and sub combos. for the rears you could go to rb15s but the money saved there would be so little you probably couldn't improve some where else. and for a sub if not the titanic r rsw10, then a hsu stf3 or a svs. but for the mains and center stick with the rb25/35 and rc25/35. stay in same numbers. rb25s and rc25 go togather. and rb35 and rc35 go togather. don't get the rb35's and a rc25 center or get the rc35 and rb 25s. they won't match well.

and the receiver and dvd player can be constant with any speaker combo.

hope I didn't confuse you or myself . that was a lot of writing

I HIGHLY suggest getting option #2. you'd get bigger speakers in the front and a bigger sub for hardly anything more- all you have to do is build the sub. piece of cake. and it has floor standers too which give a fuller more impactful sound.

I ll post tomorrow if you have questions or comments.

note: all this is for reference stuff. better audio is going to be heritage but you lose compact size(there sound makes up for it though), have to buy used, lose styling(ref stuff looks cooler in my opinion with the orange cones), and may need nicer components and get into seperates(which would need to be used). but you mentioned wall mounting and stands so all heritage is pretty much out of this. except a few heritage use very short stands(like a foot or less)

heres the link to the titanic 15" http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=300-764

and heres the assembled titanic for $150 more if you don't want to build it

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=300-765

Im very, very, very sorry about this long post. Ill shut-up now ...

note: may have a few mistakes here and there because its late(12:11am)

scp53

[Sosa]

Thanks you so much! You pretty much answsered everything I need to know right there! Very helpful and thanks again. I will let you know what I decide and if I come up with any other questions.

[Sosa]

OK another quick question, you says to get RB25's for the main and rear for the first option. So getting 2 pairs would be ok? 2 for front and 2 for the rear? Just wanna make sure I'm looking at the right thing as I'm not really sure.

Also if anyone can tell me what Denon or another receiver to check out that would be helpful. Thanks!

[meuge]

The best deal you can catch is RF-3IIs on clearance, since they're being replaced by RF-35s ($500-600) for mains, RC-3II on clearance ($300 or so) as center, and RS-3s for surrounds (never checked their prices so I don't know). This will prob. mean you'ves just spent around 1.5k on speakers. Plan to spend another $600-700 on a sub (I haven't auditioned enough of them to recommend any, but Klipsch, SVS and Sunfire are surely going to be good). Now you can get a decent $200 DVD player, and dump the rest into a nice receiver. Make sure it has preouts, because a good upgrade option down the line would be to add an outboard amp.

[Scp53]

when I spec'd these systems out, I was figuring on the newer Reference. he may not be able to get a hold of those. my local dealer has NO left over older reference stuff. What I told him is still a good deal. maybe sosa will find some rf3II and matching center. I dunno?

Sosa- if you can't find what meuge said, then go with what I said.

So getting 2 pairs would be ok? 2 for front and 2 for the rear?

------------------------------------

two pairs is fine. the rs speakers are ok too but are for less than ideal setups. they won't be as discrete as rb speakers but the rs have wider coverage. so theres a trade off. depends on what you want and what your placment options are.

could you verify that you want new or used stuff?? cause this can really affect price.

scp53

[Sosa]

I have no problem buying used if they are in good condition etc. Just to make sure again, RB25's I would want to order 2 pair of them right?

[Scp53]

what option are you talking about?? number 1 with the rsw?? yes that is 2 pair. figuring you can place them well so there pointed at the sweet spot. other wise rs25s would be needed.

maybe you should get 2 pairs of rb25s

1 rc25 center

1 titanic mk3 15" sub- need to shake that basement right

denon receiver and dvd player- model not sure of

cables/wires- partsexpress.com or similar place

the only reason to go used here is to get floor standers. but since you said wall mounting then I think you want bookshelfs right?? this setup above is probably what you want. but there are many other options. it will deliver BIG sound for its size and yet be small and unabtrusive(do you care if you get bigger rb35s and rc35??). and you won't need that bass from the bookshelfs so much because the titanic will fill it in.

scp53

[MItchell]

If I may butt in, this has been a very informative post for me. Scp53's post has really helped me channel my thinking.

I'm a newbie as well so Sosa's post immediately caught my eye this evening. My wife and I are interested in stepping up to some great sound. I plugged in a list of the components we have now in my signature for easy reference. We're very concerned about appearance (one of us more than the other!). One thought was to get something that sounds good for TV and occupies minimum space, like the popular Bose setup that uses little (satellite?) speakers. The other option, the one I like better, is to get something that would sound really good for classical music or Pink Floyd. We hadn't talked budget, so I just asked the boss and she said maybe we should look at a $3,000 option and an $8,000 option (!). (I had no idea I was going to get that much to work with.) So, in other words, we don't have a budget and are looking at what happens at different levels. (I don't think we need to spend nearly what's indicated above.) I immediately thought of Klipsch as, back in youth, some buddies were into Klipsch and helped me build a pair of corner horns using Electro-Voice components. They're gone now, but I've often dreamed of getting a pair of Klipsch corner horns with maybe a Belle for the center. That may be over the top for my wife.

So I was intrigued by Scp53's recommendation of the RB25s. I'm curious how much improvement the RB35s would offer. And how much improvement towers would offer. And would you need to put towers behind you to match the towers in front? What about mounting speakers on the ceiling? Would it be okay to have big front sound in the form of left, right, center and subwoofer and either no rear surround speakers or small ones mounted in the ceiling? Another concern is where to stick that big, ugly subwoofer.

I'd consider replacing the Technics receiver. I'm suffering from a proliferation of remote controls.

[MItchell]

Looking at this stuff a little more, I'm liking the looks of:

RB-35s front

RC-35 center

RW-12 subwoofer

RS-35s surround

Are those surround speakers designed to be hung from the ceiling? Does that work well? And can the subwoofer be moved into the middle of the room and serve as a little table between two chairs?

Will my other components suck with such great speakers? (I had a McIntosh tube pre-amp running my old corner horns back in 1978.)

MM

[Scp53]

MItchell, I think the rb35s will definately give you more bass and better imaging/soundstage. but Ive never personally listened to them. the only thing Im sure is better on the rb35's is BASS!! I have sb3's(synergy series, 8" woofer- same size as the rb35's). and let me tell you, these things school my rb25s hands down. there is NO comparison in bass output. so going from the rb25's to 35s should be similar in bass improvement. heck my sb3s sound like floor speakers(bass and spl wise), especially compared to the rb25s.

as for towers. I ve had light experience with this. no towers from Klipsch. someone else should be able to answer.

and as for surrounds. definately get them!! don't be a cheapo. do it right the first time. other wise you'll just do it later. and as for small/large, get something obviously comprable to your mains. don't get rf35s and use rb15s or rb10s as rears. this would not match. how far would you be from your rears?? if its really really close, like a few feet or so then maybe rb15/10s or even rsx sats would be ok. basically, I think if the surrounds are close to your sitting postion, then smaller speakers may work. but if there a ways away, then consider something bigger.

and for the sub, you don't like big subs?? Its cool to show off your monster. but thats just me. if your really concerned about size, maybe a small compact sub(rw8 or 10) will work when combined with a good tacticle shaker(buttkicker lfe or Clark Synthesis Tactile Sound Transducer). this could benefit you in two ways or more. 1- less spl needed by your sub-so easier on sub. 2- easier on the ears. usually you like it loud to feel it. but if you feel it with the shaker theres no need for high spl. this is just a thought. Ive never played with these shakers. thats my next thing I want.

scp53

[MItchell]

How about this? Will that big subwoofer balance okay with these?

RF-25 floorstanding front

RC-25 center

RS-25 surround

RSW-15 subwoofer

[D-Rex]

I have been building my system with new and used reference series from Ebay. I first bought an RC 3II new in the box for $240 with shipping. I then purchased a Denon 3801 receiver for $400 with shipping. Next I purchased as set of RB 5's for $333 with sipping to use as main speakers until I could afford some floor standing speakers. The RB 5's have been great, sound crisp, clean, and with an impressive amount of bass. I couldn't be more pleased with them even if they had cost a couple hundred more. Then, recently, a set of flawless RF 3II's came up on Ebay just 15 miles from where I work so I bought them for $500. Okay, so I won't have any money for the next 6 months, I will at least have a great sounding stereo set-up and my wife loves it to boot! I will let you know how the RF 3II's sound since I am going to pick them up on Tuesday.

Finally, I have a 1000W plate amp to use on a DIY subwoofer. I "almost" had a couple of AV-15 woofer speakers to begin building my subwoofer but that's another story. I just wanted to tell my story just in case you might consider buying used. My system has cost a total of $1,500 with, potentially, another $600 spent on the subwoofer. That is great to me because when I stumbled across how much I paid for my old pioneer system from Best Buy ($1400) 10 years ago it really put it into perspective.

One more thing. If you have a little over $3K to spend you might be interested in this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=61378&item=5716385849&rd=1

[Scp53]

go with what D-Rex found on ebay. if you don't mind going used. but youll need to spend another 500 or so for a sub(rw10 or titanic 12" kit). that means the total price would be about $4k. its a full 7.1!! seriously that is pretty nice. its 1600 off the original price. tell us what you think

scp53

[Scp53]

replying to MItchell:

that sub is probably more than necessary. but it can obviously be turned down. if you really want that, go for it. for that same price you could get two titanic 15" mk3 subs. partsexpress.com this would really be sweet. I own the 10" version and im very happy.

[MItchell]

That setup on e-Bay looks pretty great.

I guess part of the deal with the subwoofer is I'm trying to figure out how to work it in as a piece of furniture. The big one RSW15 comes in wood veneer, the others are in black.

The room is not an ideal acoustic environment (as few are), it's wide and shallow, and the back is open, with the dinette area behind the listening/watching area.