Recommendations for 10wpc amp

[scotbuck]

Greetings,

I've seen a variety of Klipsch speakers on eBay and I'd like to ask your advice on what direction I might want to follow. To help, I'll give you some background...

With an Audio Note OTO SE amp (using EL84s in single-ended mode for about 10wpc) I've used a pair of Lowther PM2A drivers in *very* large Mauhorn cabinets. The Lowthers were amazing at reproducing both large-scale and micro-dynamics. Unfortunately, they have fair amount of "shout" in the 2-3KHz range and *very* lean bass - it seemed that they began rolling off the bass at about 100Hz and reproduced nearly nothing below 50Hz. Also, they had the somewhat irritating quality of making the bass notes appear as if they were located *behind* the rest of the music and lacked, even in the "comfortable" frequency range, the power of the mids and highs.

I'd like to not sacrifice dynamic response for tonal balance because I think that particular quality lets more of the emotion of the musician - rather than the timbre of the instrument - come through. However, I'd rather not have a tonal imbalance that lets the upper mids tear my head off and make the bass player sound like he's playing in a different room from the rest of the band...! ;->

If I wanted to keep the cost at $2,000 or less, what would you recommend? (Thanks in advance for your advice!)

Scott

[D-MAN]

Without a doubt, Klipschorns.

Although a stellar pair might run a little more, it could certainly be done within your stated budget.

DM

[3dzapper]

Without a doubt, Klipschorns.

Is there an echo in here?

No question about it. Scarey, true, clean, fast, dynamic bass to their -3Db point of 38Hz and good output below that to the mid upper 20's -10Db point (where most of the industry rates their product).

Did I say scarey? Yes, you will be sitting there relaxing and in bliss when all of a sudden some show-off kicks the bass drum extra hard or an extra hard rim shot! Startling just like he was in the room with you!!

If you don't have corners for the Khorns probably Cornwalls would suit you. They have a deeper bass output than the Lascala's or Belle's. They lack the horn loaded bass speed however but, I'm sure that they are superior down low than the Lowther.

Welcome to the forum where you will find many arguements about amps and source materials and no arguement about the superiority of Klipsch!!!

Rick

Except for TB that is.

[scotbuck]

Thank you both very kindly for the input (and for welcoming me to the forum)! Sadly, in my condo the K-Horn would be way too large for my room - and I don't have matching corners for proper bass loading (one corner is mostly window while the other side opens onto a Pullman-style kitchen). Therefore, I'll have to keep the speakers near the back wall, but not in a corner.

Do you find the extra bass extension of a Cornwall is compromised much in terms of speed and accuracy vs. a LaScala? In other words, can a 15-inch driver in a tuned port enclosure - with only a flea-powered amp to control it - still provide articulate bass? (While I like bass extension, I also like to hear each note that the bass player plays - as opposed to the "one note" bass response of so many other speakers!)

As before, your opinions are very much appreciated.

Thanks again,

Scott

[D-MAN]

The La Scala or Belle both have the same sensitivity as the Khorn (104db), however, neither one goes as low as a Khorn.

My recommendation would be to go with a pair of either of these in leiu of Khorns, as you will get about 90% of the performance out of them (more or less). Additional lows can be supplimented by a powered subwoofer as desired, but you can decide that later...

The Cornwall will also work, but it is not quite as sensitive; however, you will not need a subwoofer with them.

So that is a tough choice. If it were me, I'd go with the fully-horn loaded rig(s)...

DM

[leok]

scotbuck

Most of the medium to larger Klipsch speakers will work well. Ther newer RF-7s are very good, esp if placed in a corner. With some crossover work they are even better (this applies to most Klipsch models). The Forte and Chorus models are more traditional 3-ways that work very well. The older Cornwall is a favorite.

Lots of choices in shapes, sizes, and approach. All will produce plenty of sound (unless you want very loud) with your 10W amp. All, for example, will be louder than your current speakers.

Leo

[Jose R]

I'm a recent owner of a pair of Cornwall IIs.

When I went through my search for a true hi-efficiency speaker to pair with my DIY SET amp I considered Lowthers, Fostex and AERs in the multitude of available cabinets.

Having heard a few single driver designs (which I found to have various problems I didn't want to deal with) I focused my effort on getting a pair of Klipsch Heritage speakers. Since I don't currently have true right angle corners in the front of my room, Klipschorns were out. I "settled" on the Cornwalls.

I think these speakers allow you more varied speaker placement within the room with a broad frequency range.

I currently have mine paired with a Rel sub (a left over from a prior system). I am not lacking in bass nor highs.

For $2,000 I would try and find a mint Cornwall II (or equivalent Heritage model) and spend the rest on room treatments, like bass traps from Real Traps or Auralex.

Which is basically what I have done.

I bought my mint pair off eBay without having heard any Klipschs before. So it was a risk. But, a risk worth taking.

These speakers are scary real. And the lack of distortion at high spls is shocking. And with good amplification, good sources and in a well treated room; I can't think of any speakers I would rather have. But, they are big. So, if you are constrained in room size maybe the Chorus or Fortes might be better suited?

Even with a moderate amount of room treatments you will get articulate clean bass, a pure midrange and clear highs.

I've only had mine for a week or so, so I am floored everytime I hear them.

[Guest Anonymous]

I vote from experience and bad corners on CORNWALLS with a minimum of 10 watts

for listening in the 75db-100db range. I had a pair of wavelength cardinal x1's and the corns sounded simply stunning. GET CORNS you will be REAL happy. The 15" woofer is paper, very easy to drive. JMO but I know I'm right.

[3dzapper]

And humble.

Rick

[Erik Mandaville]

I also have PM2As, but in the smaller Medallion Horns. I still also think they are incredible speakers, but are truly different in all the ways already described from our present reference speakers -- Klipschorns. I think a few of the current Klipsch models, as Leo pointed out, might be really to your liking. The smaller Heritage models could be great, too. La Scalas don't have quite the depth of bass response as the big K-horns, but I very much appreciate the KIND of bass they do have -- tight, dynamic, and very natural IMO. I heard the La Scalas I used to own the past weekend, and loved the way they sounded. But Cornwalls, or a couple of other models might be something to consider.

In all these years, I have to say I still have never experienced the famous Lowther 'shout' around the 2-3kHz region. They took about 600 hours to break in, but that's about it. Maybe I'm more deaf than I know!

Erik

[Daddy Dee]

Khorns! I don't think I have EVER heard someone say they didn't love the sound of their Khorns.

[Erik Mandaville]

Hi, Dee:

Was that addressed to me?

[greg928gts]

Welcome to the Forum.

From reading the information you've given us, I would not recommend Cornwalls. Cornwall bass, while deep and strong, can sometimes be a little bloated or slow.

I said little. I'm not saying muddy. I love my Cornwalls.

I would say the most definitive word to describe La Scala bass is articulate.

If you don't have corners for Khorns, I recommend La Scala's.

I would recommend La Scala's over Belle's because they have the larger midrange horn that is crossed lower, at 400hz. The midrange in the La Scala is huge. Match it with a SET amp, and a good source, and you have midrange bliss on top of articulate bass, with dynamic impact.

Be forwarned though, they must be matched with nice electronics downstream to provide the kind of smooth midrange I think you're looking for.

Greg

[leok]

Erik, scotbuck,

I forgot LaScalas. Probably my frustration (they won't fit in my house) comming through. And, of course there's the Belle.

Just brought Andrew Manze's Handel Violin Sonatas upstairs to the RF-7/pp system because that 1782 Joseph Gagliano violin just sounds so rich and coherent through those 2-ways.

Leo

Jose R,

What a beautiful amp!

[Daddy Dee]

----------------

On 9/8/2004 7:14:38 PM Erik Mandaville wrote:

Hi, Dee:

Was that addressed to me?----------------

Hey Erik,

Nope. Just an observation about Khorns being a good candidate. When I was reading the thread and various suggestions for Scott's amplifier... I was thinking, outside of some folks who don't have the corners, or unfavorable WAF, don't think I've ever heard anyone who had gotten Khorns and then didn't like the Khorn sound.

I have to say, though, that I've been really curious to hear the Lowthers.

[Erik Mandaville]

I understand, Dee.

The Lowthers sound really very, very good with strings, classical guitar, etc. I had been using them side-by-side with the La Scalas, depending on choice of music. I was using one preamp with an output selector switch I installed to switch between the desired amp and speaker combination best suited to whatever music was chosen. Wow, does that sound spoiled, or what!? The Lowthers are in another room, which comprises a second system. I used them with Moondogs for years, and the two are just fantastic together. I'm sure you know it's an (almost) full-range driver that does not use a crossover. Extremely clear, articulate, transparent -- all the best audio adjectives apply; but yes, somewhat anemic in terms of bass response. With strings, though...........they may not be beat by anything else (K-horns or La Scalas and I'm sure RF-7s might be the exception, though!)

[scotbuck]

Greetings again,

Well it looks as though there are about as many reasons to get a LaScala as a Cornwall. So practicality now has to play a role. Since a Cornwall measures quite a bit smaller than a LaScala or Belle, it makes sense for me to begin searching eBay and Audiogon for a Cornwall. (Hopefully, there'll be some close to Chicago...)

With that in mind... Is there any reason to favor an original Cornwall over a Cornwall II? Also, are there any pitfalls to look out for?

As always, your opinions are greatly appreciated! (And if this works out, I'll give you folks first crack at my Lowther drivers - cheap - if anyone's interested...)

Thanks again,

Scott

[Guest Anonymous]

I see you are in Chicago, email me, I live in Wilmette, if you wanna hear and see the corns, I have 3 pair Not a bad offer, huh

[Piranha]

The CW's must sound sweet with that new Juicy Music Peach and the NOSValves VRD monos you bought? scotbuck, I think you should take smilin up on this generous offer. I think you'll be impressed!

[maxg]

What music do you listen to on this system of yours? I only ask because, IMHO, if you are a Rock kind of guy then Forte's or Chorus could be right up your street and they have a much smaller footprint than any of the other options mentioned.

Both are sensitive enough to be run with your 10 wpc amps (98 dB/w/m from memory).

Otherwise a pair of Heresy's and a Rel Strata 3 sub does the job quite nicely.

What are the dimensions of your room again?