boa12 Posted July 31, 2001 Share Posted July 31, 2001 yea paul a. good luck w/ the rf-3. they are fine speakers though I would like to hear what i'm comparing them to 1st (no hostility) the rf-3 work great for the stereo music listening in the small back "lounge". highly recommend biwiring them one way or the other. they're connected to the receiver a-b switch which in turn is connected both to the sony de935 & big kenwood (vintage 1975). us, no offense or hostility to sony users, but much prefer the big ken for stereo music. much more high current power & silence in between. they don't make 'em like that anymore. especially kenwood from what i hear. the sony will be fine if i ever get the surround speaks & sub to use it for 5.1 (no, not just yet ). though the sony really has at least one excellent advantage over the ken - a remote! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulaelliott Posted July 31, 2001 Author Share Posted July 31, 2001 Keath, The help is much appreciated, really....I can hardly wait for the RF-3s to arrive....Now, I need to debate the whole biwiring thing...My makeup makes me inclined to say no way...But, nevertheless, I found a place selling decent Ixos cut biwire at $2.25 / ft, so I bought 20 ft, just to try. Might as well make up my own mind, although my natural skepticism might make it hard for me to see the other side. I'm currently using 16 awg Monster cable, and for the < 10 ft runs, the table I'm using says use 16 g right up to 50 ft, for 8 ohm speakers...Here's the site: http://www.sundial.net/~rogerr/wire.htm#wiretable...So if the biwire should amazingly sound better, it will no doubt be due to the fact that heavier wire, combined, is being used...Probaly will have the same effect as if I single wired the biwire! Anyway, I must confess, I'm going against one of your key caveats...the one about buying from an authorized source... When I bought my SB3s,they were from the Wiz, and I paid a true $450 for them. Then I found I could easilly have gotten them for $100 less, and I felt like a putz. On the RF3s, I went to one of those 5 star sources associated with Yahoo, and I'm only paying $545.....Theyre still supposed to carry the warranty, and while Id rather have gone to an authorized source, unless they will give a little in price ( I dont need 30% off, but something would be nice!) I'd probaby persue this route again. Anyway, I'll write back here once I've gotten then connected....Hopefully, it'll be good news...If not, i can always attribute it to them not being broken in yet...Or, perhaps, not being buy-wired! Oh, for joy, WQxR is about to play Mahler's 10th.....good night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Blorry Posted July 31, 2001 Share Posted July 31, 2001 Hey, Keith started the Bose thing! Ed- I was only joking. I would love to hear your rig someday! I am slightly Legend challenged, and envisioning all those Legends in the same room makes me drool... I have neither the space nor the $$ to afford multiple KLF-30 pairs, and I guess I'm a bit jealous... Sorry Paul, but that's the way these threads go sometimes... Hope you enjoy your speakers as much as we do. No hard feelings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted July 31, 2001 Share Posted July 31, 2001 paul, like your source said & i agree w/, 16 ga. wire is more than sufficient for runs up to 50ft (as long as it's not poor quality anyway imho). & i went from 12ga. quality single wire to biwire, so the improved dynamics of the biwiring i believe came about from some other electromechanical reasons. though i can't explain the tech reasons, & call me crazy, but i swear, at least w/ my properly spaced rf-3, I could tell the dif between the above in a double blind test. my girl sure couldn't help me do that though do a search here or on google on the net for biwiring speakers & i think you'll see more than enough dialog on the subject Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted August 1, 2001 Share Posted August 1, 2001 Try AudioQuest Slate.See below or phone them to buy in bulk.If you don't like the way it sounds you can always use it as a tow cable. www.audioadvisor.com Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulaelliott Posted August 1, 2001 Author Share Posted August 1, 2001 Hey Blorry, I know exactly what you mean in reading Ed's system specs! I'm legend challenged also...I had a decision to make....The RF-3s and the KLF-10s were going for just about the same price, ie $540 - $600. Coming from SB-3s, there's something inside me which says the legends would overpower the room....Also, I was afraid that the KLF-10s, with their 2 10s and being a 2 way speaker, would be hard pressed to play the mids as well as the RF-3s with the 2 8s....For some reason, I was nervous about 10" speakers playing the 2000 + cycle tones. Also, I like the idea of the newer technology tweeters the Reference guys have....But it was a tough choice, especially as I was able to audition the RF3s, but not the Legends. But there were alot of comments on line that the KLF-10 was a better rock and roll or HT speaker and the RF3 was more 'musical', whatever that means...The KLF-20s can now be had for about $750/pr, which makes it awfully tempting...Still, they are mamouth...I know I'd want to play them lease-breaking loud...Im in a HIRise Condo apt...If I play any Trance stuff, or any stuff with a bass beat, I need to keep it no higher than 80 db...Yet with my Classical, I have no problem kicking it to 90 db, with no neighbor hassles. If I had a house to myself, and more room, no question, it would have been the KLF 20s....But as it is, I think the RF-3 is the perfect solution....Thanks for everybody's contribution to this lively thread...Its been real enjoyable....Hopefully the RF3s will show up today...Then I can start a new one re those... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Blorry Posted August 1, 2001 Share Posted August 1, 2001 Paul- Funny you mentioned the lease breaking thing. I was kicked out of a condo because of the music! I was renting from a "friend" so there was no lease, but less than FIVE MINUTES after I hooked up my new KLF-20s the old bag who lives next door came over and complained. Unbeknownst to me prior to moving in, I found myself in the equivalent of a nursing home. This lady was too old for Carbon-14 dating to be accurate. I think her first dog was a T-Rex. Anyway, I received a message from my "friend" saying that they had received a complaint about the noise, and if they heard another, I would have to go. For Chrissakes! I hadn't been playing that loud at all! Since I now knew the tolerance level of my neighbors, I immediately began looking for another place to live, and started cranking even louder! Sure enough, I got the phone call to move. No problem. If it's between living in a nursing home with crusty old bags that are two years older than dirt, or being able to play my gorgeous KLF-20s, I'll go for the latter. I found a tiny house, and I can blast whenever I want. So much so, that I upgraded the 20s to 30s, then recently bought a pair of Heresys as surrounds! It is very loud, and I love it. I definitely understand your point of view. I would have exchanged my 20s for less thunderous speakers if my living situation was worth it, but I would have never moved in had I known my neighbors were born in the Palezoic era. Good luck, and I hope those speakers suit your needs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulaelliott Posted August 1, 2001 Author Share Posted August 1, 2001 Hey Blorry, I really thought I was going to have a problem...Before I got into my latest musical phase, I used to listen to Rock, Trance, whatever...And 80 DB of Trance consisted of about 78 db of kick drum. You know, the kind of stuff that just penetrates concrete and steel...After 3 complaints, I realized I'd better do something...Then, I found that I could easily go 10 db higher even listening to the most dynamic of symphonies. So, now, if non classical is being played, its 75-80 db....If classical, the sky's the limit...Its a good thing to, because I was afraid I'd have to move...But, owning a condo, you just cant quite pick up and leave quite as easily...Theres the small matter of selling involved. I find these very listenable levels for each type of music, so I have no problem...But, had I the legends, well, I dont know how easily I'd be able to keep to these levels....How do KLF-30s sound at just 70 - 80 db? I dont know if you have an SPL meter, so you might not be able to answer it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Blorry Posted August 1, 2001 Share Posted August 1, 2001 No, I don't have a meter, but I can tell you the 30s maintain an even tonality no matter what the SPL. They are surprisingly solid even at very low levels. With 102 db efficiency and twin twelves, it's not hard to imagine. The problem I had with the 20s at the Nursing Home was bass coupling and the dreaded spikes. The spikes help tighten the bass tremendously, but in so doing, they radiate it through the floor. The cheap-*** condos (townhouses) where I lived had all of us on the same floor sharing the same flooring! In nicer places I've seen, there is a physical break between units, separated by a firewall. Supposedly there was a firewall, but if my one neighbor's three-hundred pound son came over for a visit, we could feel the floor rebound to his every step. Conversely, when I cranked "Riding with the King" through my 20s, they felt every time Steve Gadd kicked the bass drum. The 30s are even better at the bass as you might expect, 'cause there's no substitute for size. you car hear the bass with the KLF-20s, but you feel the bass with the 30s. I suspect that if you were diligent with the volume knob, you would be quite satisfied with the sound of the 30s at near whisper volume, but it's kinda like saying you can be perfectly satisfied with driving a Ferrari around town, and never exceed 30 mph. Sadly, when I lived in apartments BK (Before Klipsch), I had to resort to headphones if I really wanted to crank. BTW, classical music is unbelievable on my 30s! Everything from the clarity of the triangle to the smoothness of the violins and clarinets to the thunder of the tympani, it's all there. It's especially nice when my tube amp is doing the driving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulaelliott Posted August 1, 2001 Author Share Posted August 1, 2001 Ah, the KLF-30s....Probably, when I'd be ready maybe to make the ultimate tradeup, they'll Really be discontinued, ie, sans available! Anyway, the RF-3s are not connected and playing Gould Bach at the moment...Needless to say, theyre terrific...They tell me these take over 100 hrs to break in, so I suppose what I'm hearing now will just get gradually better..Nice...I made the big decision on spikeswhen setting them up...My SB-3s lived on Sanus stands with spikes, and cones for the speakers to rest on...These, I decided to put the feet on but instead of screwing in the spikes, I screwed in the little rubber stops....Even this way, the body of the speakers is off the carpet which is a low, stock furnishing affair...I know you like spikes, but I'm not totally convinced...Kind of like buy-wiring. Besides until I'm damn sure theyre at their permanent resting space, I'm going to spare the carpet...Its kind of bullet holed from my excursions with the sanus stands, so it'll get a break for now. I ordered to 10'lengths of Ixos biwire, just to try...It wasnt expensive so what the heck...It comes in two thicknesses, so if anyone knows, does the thickest wire go to the woofers or the tweeters? Tweeters provice more impedence, right, so does that mean the tweeters need the thickest wire? I would have thought that duty was for the woofers, but now I'm not sure....I'm not even sure if it makes a difference, but if I'm going to try it, I want to do it right....Thanks for everyone's help...This has been a fun thread! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted August 2, 2001 Share Posted August 2, 2001 paul, according to monster & all sources i've come across, the thicker wires are for the low posts/woofers. like w/ sub cables being thicker it's supposed to be better for low freq conductivity though the need for that is another debate. maybe someone more in the know on electronics can explain the impedance/resistance stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted August 3, 2001 Share Posted August 3, 2001 paul a/e, i should add & just my theory, probably best to use thicker wire like 12 or 14ga. that's the same thickness to high & low posts. then u don't have to worry. though some of the premades do come w/ slightly thicker wire prominently labeled "low". impedance aside, my theory is basically woofers require more current & thus more wire. but that's theory & there's probably just as much to be said the other way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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