Keta Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 First time post so please forgive all the questions. Have spent the past few days searching and reading hundreds of posts but I wanted to ask some of my own. Just to start I am also a first time Klipsch owner, just having purchased this past Saturday a great pair of La Scala's, circa 1980 with AA crossover. I had never heard any of the Heritage line of speakers before so I bought these based on the praises of others. I must tell you I am extremely impressed with these speakers. The dynamics are unbelievable and I just love them. Questions I have concern crossover upgrades, I am unsure if I should just upgrade components in the stock AA or go with the ALK crossover or possibly go with active crossovers. I like the idea of bi-amping or even tri-amping. I have enough tube amps to bi-amp but not tri-amp, which can be fixed with the addition of another Bottlehead product. Is the stock AA crossover able to be bi-amped with any success? The AL-3 schematic shows that it had provisions for bi-amping so would that be a better candidate. The ALK kits seems like a logical way to go especially with all the praises that I read on this board, my only concern might be the cost. The parts kit alone cost more than I paid for the speakers. Can the T2A autoformer in the stock crossover be used like the ALK's and be made adjustable for the squawker output? Any other "must do" tweaks for the LS's? OK enough silly questions for now, I'm going to enjoy these babies for a bit more tonight. Thanks for any replies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylanl Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 Try the A crossovers over the ALK. Seems smoother in the LaScalla. Also down the road an Altec mid-range horn makes them sound wonderful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylanl Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 Start here 1st. Very cheap and reversible. Rope caulk the horns it helps a lot with the ringing from the squawker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shock-Late Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 Congratulations for your purchase here's what I did to my old AA La Scalas: 1) replace the midrange horns with electro Voice SM120A. Smoother, wider dispersion, more detailed. Doesn't ring. (you keep the existing K55V driver) 2) replace stock tweeters with Beyma CP25. You may have to change the tweeter tap on the autoformer. My CP25 sounded too "loud" in my bright room. Of course, I have the split industrial version so I just had to build a new top cabinet to hold the new tweeter and squawker. They wouldn't fit in the stock cabinet. But you could just put them on top of yours. You can also disconnect the Zener diode in the tweeter circuit, and remove the brass screw in the tweeter inductor. It's a subtle change, but worth it. I now ordered a Behringer DCX 2496 digital active crossover with delay, phase and eq settings for each band, and i'm about to tri-amp my Scalas using my NAD amp for the bass, and two TriPath based SonicImpact amplifiers (2 x 5W) for the mediums and tweeters. it's gonna be a lot of fun setting it right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.4knee Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 OK I have stock La Scala 1984's to be exact. I use the ALK Kit crossovers. ALK kits cost more than you paid for your speakers, good grief how much did you pay for your speakers? (no need to answer that) The kits are pretty reasonably priced. I like the ALK's because of their dynamics and clarity. If you are running tubes they will be plenty smooth enough. Now upgrading the top end horns, ie an Altec 511, EV SM120... this would be a great upgrade as well. If you go that route you may want to consider Al's ES networks. Al K. is also going to offer a new Tractix horn replacement for Belle Klipsch, La Scalas and Klipschorns squawkers. You can also consider rope caulking your squawkers to eliminate the horn ringing. Also you can brace the bass bin to reduce the cabinet vibration and tighten your bass response. As for me I am going to try rope caulking my squawkers this weekend and then while finishing my split La Scala project I am going to brace the bass bin in it to see if I like the result. Others advent replacing the Tweeters with Beyma CP-25's, JBL 2404H, and EV T350. They all extend up to 20 KHZ. I Am considering the EV T350's for my set up. They are all also a bit more sensitive and would require some attentuation to bring them inline with the rest of the drivers, ie maybe an LPAD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZplyonZ Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 Welcome and congratulations on scoring some incredible speakers! As far as mods and tweaks are concerned, you will find lots of them on this board by searching under the term "Scala". But before you leap into modifying these too much, I would suggest you consider the following advice: Stop and get to know the speakers first. The Klipsch Heritage line has some very individual characteristics which some love and others hate. To my way of thinking you need to get in tune with the baseline first before replacing drivers and such. Listen for a month and start with reversible changes. You will get further faster that way, believe me... Chris L Austin, Texas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylanl Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 Zyplon, good advice. I had this guy into mods. before he even listened to them for any length of time. Heck, he may love them the way they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylanl Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 J.4, tell me what you think after you do the rope caulk mod. One thing you will notice is that the horn if it is metal will ring when tapped with your finger or anything else. Once the caulk is applied that ringing is completly gone. I feel so far this is the best mod. I have made for the price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raypenn Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 I have read a number of posts that mention ringing of the horns, and ways to damp the horns to prevent this. This may sound naive, but can somebody describe the "ringing" sound? Is it subtle? Is it only at high volume levels? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keta Posted March 1, 2005 Author Share Posted March 1, 2005 Thanks for all the input. I am going to take the suggestion and mostly just listen for a while and see if there is anything that starts to bother me, then address those issues. So far I can't find to much to complain about, sometimes at higher volume things can get harsh but not to bad. I like some of the straight forward tweaks like dampening, bypass cap, choke swap. Nothing to drastic and easily returned to stock. I still havn't found anything about being able to make adjustments to the stock autoformer for the squawker level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylanl Posted March 2, 2005 Share Posted March 2, 2005 Raypenn, ringing will make the horn have the tendency to sound bright or edgy. Piercing is another term. Rope Caulk helps smooth out reflections that could take place inside the horn. The later Klipsch products switched to the plastic squawker and this problem does not seem to be as prevalent. I think I mentioned this before but tap on the horn itself and see if it does not sing a bit. If you hear ringing it is probably coloring the music. Now you may like it the way it is, but for me this simple mod really helps the overall performance of the Khorn & LaScalla. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yaffstone Posted March 2, 2005 Share Posted March 2, 2005 I've replaced the capacitors in my AA x-overs with modern metal film polystyrene. This is a relatively cheap mod that results in obvious increase in clairty and detail. I recommend going with ASC capacitors from alliedelec.com. These will run you about $50.00 total for your two cross overs. 2 13uF caps, 4 2uF caps in all. The ASC units are high quality laboratory grade at 5% tollerance. Very low leakage and ESR. I suspect there is little to no difference between these and the much more expensive units marked for the audio market. I'd like to see someone do a quantitative comparison on this issue sometime. Measured output curves of the same network with different caps would be nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylanl Posted March 2, 2005 Share Posted March 2, 2005 Yaffstone, are the horns everything you expected them to be?? Are they living up to the hype? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted March 2, 2005 Share Posted March 2, 2005 ---------------- On 3/2/2005 6:14:48 PM yaffstone wrote: I'd like to see someone do a quantitative comparison on this issue sometime. Measured output curves of the same network with different caps would be nice. ---------------- yaffstone, I have done a lot of these comparisons. Below is a link to one. Bob http://www.bandksound.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keta Posted March 2, 2005 Author Share Posted March 2, 2005 My eyes tell me NOT to spend the money on the Jensen PIOs. Is that a fair assesment of the chart? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted March 2, 2005 Share Posted March 2, 2005 Well, my assessment is something like this. The two caps in that set of traces are the most different of any two new caps I have ever tested. That difference is a relatively high ESR (equivalent series resistance) for the Jensens and a low ESR for the GEs. The other value we can easily measure is capacitance. Capacitance is almost the same. Capacitance is the controlling effect here. The ESR is almost 20 times higher (worse) in the Jensens than in the GEs and that difference is still not measureable on the spectrum analyzer. By instaneous comparison with a switch, it is also not hearable. So, is ESR not important? It most certainly is important. The typical original Klipsch Type AA crossover that I have tested has an ESR in the tweeter circuit that is about 4 times as high as that difference talked about above. Sometimes it is 10 times as high. The effect of ESR numbers that high are easy to see with test equipment and easy to hear. High ESR is usually a product of old age in caps. In that case, I would want to start out with a low value for ESR so I could hope to have many years of good performance from the caps before ESR became an issue. OK, so for crossover caps, capacitance makes a difference. That is the reason we want them in there. ESR makes a difference when it gets too high. We want capacitance not resistance. Working voltage needs to be high enough. The cap should be built well to last a long time. What else is important in a crossover cap? If there is anything else important, I haven't been able to find it. Still searching. Bob Crites Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keta Posted March 3, 2005 Author Share Posted March 3, 2005 My assesment of your assesment is you would stick with the GE's since they excelled in every catagory you mentioned. Yes?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 ---------------- On 3/3/2005 12:05:45 AM Keta wrote: My assesment of your assesment is you would stick with the GE's since they excelled in every catagory you mentioned. Yes?? ---------------- Yes, unless, or until, I find something demonstrated to be better. Bob Crites Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZplyonZ Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 Keta, I would recommend listening carefully to Bob on this. He rebuilt the crossovers on my vintage 1979 La Scalas (no mod in circuitry, just a test and a rebuild to bring them back to original spec). The end result was unbelieveable. Like a whole different speaker. Also his price was very good... (and I am not getting paid to make this comment!) Chris L Austin, Texas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylanl Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 Sure your not on the take. Tell us how much did Bob pay you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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