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KLF-20's FOR SURROUNDS?


CYBERSHEB

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HEY THERE...I'M NEW HERE, AM REALLY GLAD TO JOIN U GUYS. I'M HAVING THE KLF-30's & KLF-C7 FOR THE FRONT AND CENTER BUT NO REARS AT THE MOMENT. I AM DRIVING THEM WITH A MARNATZ SR-8000. I'M VERY MUCH INTO MUSIC SO I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW YOUR ADVICE ON HAVING THE KLF-20's FOR THE REARS.

THANKS A LOT.

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Cyber, I do use KLF-20s for surrounds but to be honest I did it as much for decorating esthetics as sound. There are definitely two camps on it. Here's a rough summary from memory:

The current conventional wisdom says use purpose built surrounds (e.g. bipole, dipole, WDST, etc. speakers) for surrounds. This seems to be based on the assumption that DVDs and VHS tapes are mixed with surround channels designed for diffuse (hard to localize) playback.

However, if you go with this reasoning, it means that it will be hard for the listener to localize something in the surround channel even when the recording engineer intends you to.

Curiously, you also see recommmendations to us of full range monopoles for SACD and DVD-A playback. I take this as indicating that the recording engineers may want localized sounds in the surrounds.

On the other hand, the Audio Engineering Society, Sterophile Magazine and Horned seem to think the left/center/right/left surround/right surround should all be identical full range speakers for home theater.

What do I make of it? I think we're dealing with a legacy issue of sorts caused by the early adoption of the satellite/sub model espoused by THX and others during the formative Pro-Logic era. Properly mixed 5 channel soundtracks played back through monopole speakes are capable of having localized and diffuse sounds in the surrounds through proper mixing. The real question is what do the guys doing the mix think it's going to be played back on?

My personal hope is that we'll move back toward the assumption of identical monopoles in the front and back. I say this for a few reasons:

1) I think this would be the most flexible solution.

2) Obviously timbre matching issues pretty much go

away when you use identical speakers front and rear

3) Power going to the rears seem to keep going up

and I hate to worry about hurting the usually

less efficient rear speakers.

Naturally, there are circumstances that clearly preclude the use of monople surrounds. The obvious one is the common situation where the listener's couch is backed up against the rear wall in the HT and the surrounds (for whatever reasons) have to be mounted on said rear wall.

I also think the use of the monopoles for surrounds becomes less controversial the farther they are from the listening position. My KLF-20s are about 15 feet out (and about 20 degrees back) and the effect seems reasonably good.

I hope that helps some cwm12.gif

This message has been edited by Ephemeris on 09-02-2001 at 11:32 AM

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I just added some 1989 KG4 to my rears, have KLF-30 up front and I think it rocks.

Craig

------------------

Klipsch KLF30 Mains

Klipsch KLF-C7 Center

Klipsch KSP-S6 Surrounds

Klipsch KSB 1.1 Front Effects

Dual SVS 20-39CS Sub's

Samaon S700 Sub Amp

Yamaha DSP-A1

Yamaha MDX-793 Mini disc

Yamaha TX-492 Tuner

Sony CDP-C701ES 5 disc Player

Panasonic A110 DVD

Hitachi MX6080EM Muli-system HI-FI VCR

Hitachi 29" T.V.

Denon DP-37F Turntable

Pair of KG4's (looking for a good center)

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Using bipoles or dipoles will help disperse sound better and reduce localization when used for surrounds or rears. However, as Ephemeris mentioned - that means you won't be able to localize sounds that are meant to be also. Personally, I recommend monopoles for surrounds and rears if you have both a side and rear channel. If you're running just one surround channel w/o rears then it might be better to use dipoles or bipoles.

Really though, the best thing to do is try them both in your own listening room and see what sounds best w/ a sampling of your typical the source material.

-Mike

------------------

Electronics

-----------

Display: NEC LT150 Projector w/ Da-Lite Model-B 67"x50" Scrn

DVD Player: Pioneer Elite DV-05

Decoder: Lexicon DC-2 DD/DTS/THX

Equalization (front): AudioControl C-101 Series III

Amplifiers (front): Rotel RB-991 - 200W x 2

Amplifiers (center/sides): Rotel RB-993 - 200W x 3

Amplifiers (read): Adcom GFA 5500 - 200W x 2

Power Conditioner: Monster HTS 3500 Power Center

Speakers

--------

Front: (2x) Klipsch KLF-30 (black satin finish)

Center: Klipsch KLF-C7 (black satin finish)

Side/Rear: (4x) Klipsch RB-5 (medium oak)

Sub: Velodyne HGS-15 (black gloss)

Interconnects

-------------

DVD to DC-2: generic Toslink

Front: AudioQuest Coral

Sides: AudioQuest Topaz

Center/Sub: AudioQuest Diamondback

Rear: AudioQuest Turquoise

Speaker Cables

--------------

Front: Kimber Kable 4TC (hi) / Kimber Kable 8TC (lo)

Center: Monster Cable Z3

Side: AudioQuest Type 4+

Rear: AudioQuest Slate (single bi-wire)

s>

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Most of us wish we could use floor standing speakers for rear as well as front, even more so to be able to use the same ones - go for it if you can afford the second pair of KLF-30's. If they end up not working out you can always replace them w/ bookshelf speakers and then use them for a stereo elsewhere in the house or something.

-Mike

------------------

Electronics

-----------

Display: NEC LT150 Projector w/ Da-Lite Model-B 67"x50" Scrn

DVD Player: Pioneer Elite DV-05

Decoder: Lexicon DC-2 DD/DTS/THX

Equalization (front): AudioControl C-101 Series III

Amplifiers (front): Rotel RB-991 - 200W x 2

Amplifiers (center/sides): Rotel RB-993 - 200W x 3

Amplifiers (read): Adcom GFA 5500 - 200W x 2

Power Conditioner: Monster HTS 3500 Power Center

Speakers

--------

Front: (2x) Klipsch KLF-30 (black satin finish)

Center: Klipsch KLF-C7 (black satin finish)

Side/Rear: (4x) Klipsch RB-5 (medium oak)

Sub: Velodyne HGS-15 (black gloss)

Interconnects

-------------

DVD to DC-2: generic Toslink

Front: AudioQuest Coral

Sides: AudioQuest Topaz

Center/Sub: AudioQuest Diamondback

Rear: AudioQuest Turquoise

Speaker Cables

--------------

Front: Kimber Kable 4TC (hi) / Kimber Kable 8TC (lo)

Center: Monster Cable Z3

Side: AudioQuest Type 4+

Rear: AudioQuest Slate (single bi-wire)

s>

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to put it real simple, directs for music, wdst for HT.

that's one thing i like so much on the features of the upper denons. A & B surrounds w/ switching & memory for the chosen mode.

cyber, oh & for your current set-up & music liking, go w/ the 30s.

------------------

Klipsch KLF 30 (front), KLF C7, Cornwall I (rear)

Velodyne HGS-18 sub woofer

Monsterbass 400 sub interconnect/Monster MCX-2 biwire & Z cable

Marantz SR-8000 receiver

Sony DVP-C650D 5-disk cd/dvd player

Sony Trinitron 27" stereo tv

Toshiba hi-fi stereo vcr

Technics dual cassette deck

Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2100 digital cable box

Monster HTS1000 PowerCenter

Boa's Listenin Lounge:

Klipsch RF-3, RC-3

Monster MCX-1 Biwire

Sony STR-DE935 a/v receiver

Kenwood KR-9600 AM/FM stereo receiver (vintage 1975)

Russound AB-2 receiver switch to RF-3

Teac PD-D1200 5-disk cd changer

Technics SL-1950 turntable/AT LS500 cartridge

rock on!

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A good review, Ephemeris! I would add that the sound engineers that mix the movies assume that there will be five (or six) full range speakers plus a GREAT subwoofer to recreate their work in your living room. WDST (etc.) helps make small rooms sound bigger, but big rooms work best (IMHO) with full range speakers set to SMALL all around.

The latest releases are mixed that way, so unless you are stuck with a vast (or even half vast) collection of ProLogic era videotapes... go for the sound that cinema sound engineers expect you will.

I have tried KLF 10's, 20's and 30's in support of KLF-30 mains... and as the list below indicates... KLF 30's are my choice! More punch over 90 Hz plus better tone & timbre match on front-to-back sound pans. But, the 20's run a very close second with matching mid-range and tweeter horns.

cwm38.gif Love that good ol' "Klipsch Sound!" HornEd

------------------

"Where Legends Live! Klipsch Powered HT"

FOREGROUND SOUND STAGE:

KLF 30 Center, KLF 30 Mains, KLF 10 Front Effects

BACKGROUND SOUND STAGE:

KLF 30 L&R Side/Surrounds, KLF 30 Rear Effects

LARGE MOUTH BASS:

Twin SVS CS-Ultra sub with Samson Megawatt Amp

SPEAKER SUPPORT SYSTEMS:

Mitsubishi RPHD1080i 65", Yamaha RX-V3000 Receiver

Toshiba Pro Scan 6200, Toshiba Pro 6-head SVHS W808

and such... Tweakin' On!

Music Respite Room: Cornwalls & SVS 16-46/Ultra

Klipsched Motor Home SB2's, KLF C-7, ???, Yamaha 5-disc DVD/CD 996,

Under Construction

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I'm in the same boat I'm canning my 8.5's for a set of KLF 20's for my rears, so what would I be missing? Sound wise that is- granted I don't have the hearing of a canine so what gives!

------------------

Thanks J

KLF 30 Mains

C7 Center

8.5 rears

Yamaha RX-V995

Toshiba SD-1600 DVD

Pioneer CLD-S201 LD

Pioneer PD-M53 CD

Sony 32 inch TV

no subs till house built

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