D-MAN Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 Guys, I think that 20 watts is too little for a robust 2-way application. I would not be comfortable below 75 watts RMS rating on the high-end, actually. For instance, in HT (which we all know that it will be used for?!), the dynamic range skyrockets in a way that music doesn't. I've had DVD's peg my meters of the MC300 (300 watts per channel) into the things "acidentally". Granted, the woofer sucks up quite a bit (150 watts rating), however, I blasted them with twice that... Having a 3-way, the thank goodness that I have a 75 watt driver BETWEEN the 25 watt tweeter prevented some bad things, I suspect. What are your thoughts on this? DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 That leaves out the new Atlas driver. So Dana, you could try this out (could be what Klipsch is planning to use on the Premire series too. Handles 280 watts continuous. http://www.bcspeakers.com/index.php?sez=1&categoria=4&id_descrizione=46&prodotto=174 It's 568 Euros though. They just sent me the new price list. Marvel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 "Guys, I think that 20 watts is too little for a robust 2-way application. I would not be comfortable below 75 watts RMS rating on the high-end, actually." Power handling is two-part: Thermal: About 20W for 44mm coils, 75W for 100mm coils. This is a long term average, the drivers will take 10dB peaks above this with ease. This translates to about 133dB for a 44mm driver, and about 140dB for a good 100mm driver. Excursion: An Altec 902 will only handle 5W with a 12dB/500hz crossover, a JBL LE85 about 10W. The JBL375/2440 about 40W. This increases at a 12dB/oct rate above 500hz. I have used 400W amps on a JBL 2426 above 1Khz, and 750W on the JBL 2445 (LR24dB crossover). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 ---------------- On 5/19/2005 12:49:28 PM Marvel wrote: So Dana, you could try this out (could be what Klipsch is planning to use on the Premire series too. Handles 280 watts continuous. Marvel ---------------- Bruce, what's that in US dollars? Those DO look nice, though. I figure that I've got roughly $1800+ retail in the top-end right now, including the ES networks. Can it be done cheaper or even the same and not reduce performance? Only then, my friend, would I take the plunge. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 It's about $718. But that is list. Compared to what PE has the other drivers listed for, maybe $150 off that for the DE1050. PE doesn't have it listed yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 Holy COw! that's getting close to TAD territory! Now a nice set of solid wood horns, and those + ES network would amount to a fine 2-way lash-up. If you make the horn yourself, then you COULD come in below $2K retail. Is that your plan? DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 Having to do some termite repair on the house, I don't think so. At least not with these drivers! I am making some molds to cast some throat adapters for some Smith horns though. Although, as John Warren pointed out, the Smith horns have a large horizontal dispersion, which may not work well at all for a corner horns, given the reflections one might get off the nearby walls. Might work well on a Cornscala type cabinet that would sit in more away from the corners. B&C has lowered their price on their DE1000 a small bit, and it comes in lower cost than the DE1050. The DE1000 is a 1.5" throat (4" diaphragm) rated 500-20K. Looks to be about 92 db at 20K, so some eq would be in order. Marvel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 Cool. Remember the Goldwood 90x40 2" throat tractrix horns are 49.95 ea! Something to think about, but the wooden Smith's would be very, very pretty sitting on top, too (sans top cabinet). {drooling} - {okay, I'm better now}. The big problem is hiding the xover without a top cabinet to "hide" everything. The stock size won't fit down the back reflector board which would be my first choice, but if you made one specially sized... DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdnfay Posted May 19, 2005 Author Share Posted May 19, 2005 D-Man, Just ordered 2 of the Goldwood horns and 2 Selenium D405Ti drivers From PE (I know they're cheapos but I've got to start somewhere). Their return policy is a good one. If I don't like the drivers They can be returned within 45 days...no questions asked. Guess I'll try a few different ones until I find one I like. I want to address the network positioning question. I thought about attaching it to the back panel. Now, here is a real stupid question..Will the magnetic field of the woofers effect the inductors on the network in any way? I moved the Jubilee clones passed the TV and really distorted the picture. That tells me the field is pretty strong. Any thoughts? Big D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 Big D, no the xover coils are too far away to influence the xover operation IMO. What you are thinking about is called "coupling" where the interactions of (usually) the midrange driver magnet is too close to the xover coils and they are not at a right angle to each other and they "couple" or interact in a manner to change their normal behavior. That is typically a matter of a few inches, though. Not to be confused with distorting TV picturs, I had some woofers sitting on the floor in front of the rear-projection tv, and they "fuzzed" the picture all up. Seems Tv picture flyback coils are much more susceptable. The woofers are too far away and you will be at a right angle to them on the tail-board, anyway. It's a very good idea, and one that I'd like to pursue eventually, too. P.S. let us know what you think of those drivers, I was thinking about an upgrade myself and those were on my short list (the titanium diaphragm ones, right?). DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdnfay Posted May 19, 2005 Author Share Posted May 19, 2005 Yep http://www.seleniumloudspeakers.com/site2004/index.asp Bottom of the page. Big D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 As I enter my third year with "good" horns, the one thing that I have learned is this: I hate to admit this, but it seems that the more something costs, the better it sounds. Take the JBL 2404H's for instance, frankly there is NO WAY that they are actually worth the money. They don't have any special fit-and-finish to speak of, they are not better made IMO, as a matter of fact, getting at the diaphragms is a total pain. They also have a goofy and awkward mounting setup. But, dang if they don't actually sound great! But they had to break in QUITE a while. So I hate to recommend to anyone this sad, sad truism, but "you get what you pay for, but it will be through the nose". Big D, I forgot to mention that they will have a pronounced break-in period (I have D-305's), so don't send them back if you don't like them right away. The JBL's were even worse, I HATED them when I first got them, but in 2 weeks, I started to love them. Now I'm afraid to do without them. It took 3 weeks (I figure 72 hrs of steady playing time) to smooth out. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdnfay Posted May 19, 2005 Author Share Posted May 19, 2005 Thanks for the break-in info. Now that you mention it these old 807's are starting to mellow out a little but still lacking in the upper range. I would estimate I've got about 70 hrs on them now. Big D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 Dmad....About hiding xovers under Smith horns. This can be done. I saw a low narrow cabnet pie shaped diminsioned as the Smith horn placed onder horn. Xovers placed inside. This eliminated cavity effect diffraction under the horn. By the way look at the new CNC made 2397 Smith horn. Lansing Heritage forum today. These are the best ive seen yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 Dmad, that's a good one, I should have called myself that in the first place! DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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