Bi-amping using pair of Aragon 8008BB

[efleming]

I am looking at purchasing another Aragon 8008BB to use for bi-amping a pair of Mirage 3sis. The speakers are currently bi-wired now using a single Aragon 8008BB. How would I go about performing this and would it give me an advantage? I am using a Sonic Frontiers Line 3 preamp.

Any and all help is greatly appreciated.

[Guest BobG]

You can easily do what is known as "Passive Biamp". To do this, merely remove the jumper straps that connect the two sets of input binding posts on your speakers. Then, after connecting your preamp output to both power amps, send the output from one amp to both LF inputs (one on each speaker) and the output from the other power amp to both sets of HF inputs (one on each speaker). You can also modify this approach a bit by using one power amp for the R speaker and the other for the L speaker. In that case, send R channel output from your preamp to BOTH channel inputs on one amp and the L channel output on your preamp to BOTH inputs on the other power amp. Then, use one channel of the R power amp to run the LF inputs on the R speaker and the other channel on the R power amp to run the HF inputs on the R speaker. Do the same thing for the L channel.

This approach should yield a bit better dynamic range and possibly better soundstaging due to reduced channel crosstalk in the power amps. Using one amp for each speaker balances the load on each of the two power amps rather than having one do all the hard work (bass) while the other loafs along dong just the mids/highs.

This setup is called passive biamp because you are still feeding full range signal to all amp channels and then running through the passive crossover networks in your speakers. Active Biamp is accomplished by eliminating the passive networks inside the speakers and replacing them with an active, line level crossover network between the preamp and power amps. Much more work and much more expensive though should also deliver superior results.

Hope this helps.

[Speedball]

Two 8008BB's ....Lucky you.

[nicholtl]

----------------

On 7/7/2005 3:27:39 PM BobG wrote:

You can easily do what is known as "Passive Biamp". To do this, merely remove the jumper straps that connect the two sets of input binding posts on your speakers. Then, after connecting your preamp output to both power amps, send the output from one amp to both LF inputs (one on each speaker) and the output from the other power amp to both sets of HF inputs (one on each speaker). You can also modify this approach a bit by using one power amp for the R speaker and the other for the L speaker. In that case, send R channel output from your preamp to BOTH channel inputs on one amp and the L channel output on your preamp to BOTH inputs on the other power amp. Then, use one channel of the R power amp to run the LF inputs on the R speaker and the other channel on the R power amp to run the HF inputs on the R speaker. Do the same thing for the L channel.

This approach should yield a bit better dynamic range and possibly better soundstaging due to reduced channel crosstalk in the power amps. Using one amp for each speaker balances the load on each of the two power amps rather than having one do all the hard work (bass) while the other loafs along dong just the mids/highs.

This setup is called passive biamp because you are still feeding full range signal to all amp channels and then running through the passive crossover networks in your speakers. Active Biamp is accomplished by eliminating the passive networks inside the speakers and replacing them with an active, line level crossover network between the preamp and power amps. Much more work and much more expensive though should also deliver superior results.

Hope this helps.

----------------

Great response! Now I FINALLY understand the difference between passive and active bi-amping. Thanks, Bob!

[wstrickland1]

----------------

On 7/7/2005 3:27:39 PM BobG wrote:

You can easily do what is known as "Passive Biamp". To do this, merely remove the jumper straps that connect the two sets of input binding posts on your speakers. Then, after connecting your preamp output to both power amps, send the output from one amp to both LF inputs (one on each speaker) and the output from the other power amp to both sets of HF inputs (one on each speaker). You can also modify this approach a bit by using one power amp for the R speaker and the other for the L speaker. In that case, send R channel output from your preamp to BOTH channel inputs on one amp and the L channel output on your preamp to BOTH inputs on the other power amp. Then, use one channel of the R power amp to run the LF inputs on the R speaker and the other channel on the R power amp to run the HF inputs on the R speaker. Do the same thing for the L channel.

This approach should yield a bit better dynamic range and possibly better soundstaging due to reduced channel crosstalk in the power amps. Using one amp for each speaker balances the load on each of the two power amps rather than having one do all the hard work (bass) while the other loafs along dong just the mids/highs.

This setup is called passive biamp because you are still feeding full range signal to all amp channels and then running through the passive crossover networks in your speakers. Active Biamp is accomplished by eliminating the passive networks inside the speakers and replacing them with an active, line level crossover network between the preamp and power amps. Much more work and much more expensive though should also deliver superior results.

Hope this helps.

----------------

This is very interesting. However I have questions. First, I'll tell you I am putting together a 2 channel system. I will use a pair of KLF 30s (or 20s) and my existing Carver 6 channel amp. Right now, I am using a Carver CT 26v DPL pre amp which actually sounds ok but will be upgrading to something better down the road. So down to the bi amp business. I have 6 x 133 watts of pretty clean amplifier. What would I need in the way of crossovers? Does it come in a "unit" type set up or are they just raw components? Also, with 6 equal channels, is there some way of tri-amping the KLFs? Has that ever been done? I would appreciate any help.

Billy

[wstrickland1]

also, what affect does this have on speaker impedence?

[efleming]

Thanks for the response Bob. I am looking for a pair of balanced pair or Palladium IIs at a good price. The only ones I have found are single ended and are around $2500.00. I can pick up an 8008BB for roughly around $1300 or less. A little less power but I think still the same effect. I have also been looking at a pair of BAT VK-1000's but there are over $5k. Too much money.

Also, thanks to all that responded to this thread.

This forum is very good. I appreciate all of the assistance in this crazy game we call audio nirvana...

Will post my response when I have put this in place.

Now this means new sets of wires....

[efleming]

Right now I am using shotgun wires for connections to the speakers. I am using all 4 connections from each channel to connect to the speaker. If I bi-amp with using one amp per speaker using one channel for LF and the othre channel for HF, can I connect the 2 extra leads from the speaker end to the LF and HF. Meaning I would have 4 spades connecting to LF and 4 spades connecting to HF.

[crazytubepower]

Bi-amps two 8008's now thats some power

[timbley]

----------------

This is very interesting. However I have questions. First, I'll tell you I am putting together a 2 channel system. I will use a pair of KLF 30s (or 20s) and my existing Carver 6 channel amp. Right now, I am using a Carver CT 26v DPL pre amp which actually sounds ok but will be upgrading to something better down the road. So down to the bi amp business. I have 6 x 133 watts of pretty clean amplifier. What would I need in the way of crossovers? Does it come in a "unit" type set up or are they just raw components? Also, with 6 equal channels, is there some way of tri-amping the KLFs? Has that ever been done? I would appreciate any help.

Billy

----------------

I've used a Behringer DCX digital active crossover and Behringer DEQ equalizer with excellent results.

http://www.behringer.com/DCX2496/index.cfm?lang=ENG

http://www.behringer.com/DEQ2496/index.cfm?lang=ENG

These two boxes and a calibration microphone will give you six channels of active crossover (enough for stereo 3 way) and a lot of EQ power. You can get some seriously good results.

Some others here will tell you to avoid Behringer and try DBX or some other brands. I'm sure they all work well. Active bi-amping is the real deal if you ask me. The benifits are undeniable once you've heard it.

A big problem ends up being the volume control on all the channels. How do you do that? You could have a custom six channel pre-amp built. Or, you can use a home theater receiver (or two) with digital amplifiers (my choice). Hook in through the DVD 5.1 inputs and all your channels will be volume synchronized with a single remote control.

A word of caution:

With an active crossover system, you must take care with the settings and hookups because your tweeters are unprotected with their passive filter removed. You're relying totally on the electronics to prevent low frequency signals from reaching the tweet and frying it. Thus, it is important to have some kind of DC or low frequency protection on at least the amplifier outputs going to the tweeters. If your amps send a thump down the line when you turn them on, or if you have some significant 60hz hum, you'll want to take care of that first, or leave some kind of passive filter, maybe just a cap, on your tweeter. As long as you remain keenly aware of this issue your tweeters will be safe.

[timbley]

----------------

On 7/8/2005 8:56:04 AM wstrickland1 wrote:

also, what affect does this have on speaker impedence?

----------------

When actively bi-amping, or tri, or other multi-amping, each amplifier is hooked directly to one driver only, so it sees the impedance curve of that driver in it's enclosure alone, and only over the specified frequency range. Generally speaking, the impedance curve will be easier on each amplifier and current demand lower than when running a passive network.