Kyler Cavers Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 I'm a bit confused, I have this RSW-12 from me dealer im still testing out and have some concerns with it. When listening to rap music that has a lot of levels and styles of bass I noticed that is doesn't like to pound very well, when the crossover is set high and your volume levels are up it sounds horrible. I use a Harman/Kardon AVR 125 and all I get for settings is small and large for my RF-3's so I can't choose a crossover, I noticed with the sub crossover on half and the speakers on large it blended nicely I just figured I could run them on small so they could play louder. It's just for 1500 bucks you'd think this sub would pound more. Are these subs designed to simply extend the low levels for listening that a speaker can't do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scp53 Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 how high off x over are you turning it to? imo that sub sounds best at 80hz x over or lower depending on the main speakers. what kind of placement do you have for it? that can make a huge impact on the sound. have you used test tones/test disk and spl meter to place it right? if you dont have that stuff you can place the sub in your listening position, play some bass heavy material, then walk around the room to find where it sounds best. then put the sub there. btw, i have personally heard it numerous times in store and it is very tight and punchy. you maybe asking for too much out of it. remember, its still just a 12in driver with a pr radiator. or you may be used to boomy subs that are "one note wonders". this one is NOT one notey. scp53 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sivadselim Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 i've never heard anyone complain about an rsw12's performance with rap music (or any music, for that matter). it should sound great. where is it placed in your room? you realize that the active driver is the one on the rear, not the front, right? did you read the sub's instructions? if you're using the receiver's crossover (which you are), then you want to use the sub's setting that bypasses its own crossover. did you calibrate the sub's level correctly? (btw, an rsw12 shouldn't have cost ya $1500.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyler Cavers Posted July 25, 2005 Author Share Posted July 25, 2005 I'll post a pic asap, but what I'm saying is that on higher frequencies the sub sounds bad when it's loud, I don't really have a choice on placement as I'll show you where it is, it sounds really good don't get me wrong, I guess I should just keep my speakers on Large to fill that gap. The sub sounds better when it plays on a lower crossover. (thats 1500 Canadian btw) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zealot125 Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 What do you mean when you say higher frequencys? 80 hz? Thats not a very high frequency. I went for the RSW-15 over the 12, just because it mateches my rf-7's better, but the 12 AND the 15 had FANTASTIC punch. Either one, when calibrated correctly, will knock the snot out of your nose. I dunno about how they perform with those fake computer generated bass noises (for lack of a better word) that rap music employs, because they are too good for a kick bass drum and a bass guitar. But I DO know that for rock music, they are UNEQUALED for their price range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyler Cavers Posted July 26, 2005 Author Share Posted July 26, 2005 Heres my setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zealot125 Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 You need to cornerload that sucker! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAS Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 ---------------- On 7/26/2005 11:01:07 AM Zealot125 wrote: You need to cornerload that sucker! ---------------- Second that. Also, I think it may be a case of "what were you running before." Many of those who ran less capable (less responsively linear) subs are under the influence that bass should be quite apparent all the time. And with the new sub, when those peaks no longer exist they see it as a deficiency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedball Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 Placement does have a lot to do with how they sound. My $800.00 svs cylinder can hardly turned up past 8:00 without blowing out the windows. It is really just good for movies though, seems it has to be adjusted for every song with music. The RSW-15 is what I would like to try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travisc Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 its odd, I listened to two 15" velodynes this weekend, particularly the scene in finding nemo were Darla taps on the tank. I was extremely impressed with the slam factor. I also think the fact that khorns were handling the 80 up part of it also contributed to the slam. I went home and tried some different placement options and got a little better. Two things I think contribute to the difference is the fact that the velodynes are sealed enclosure and the khorns adding the lower mids. It would be cool If some of you gurus would chime in here is the lack of hornloaded lows(80hz and up)responsible for the lack of slam, or do the passive radiators on the rsw's forfeit slam for rumble? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 I think it might actually be your source material and your problem has nothing to do with the subwoofer itself...rap music generally has 80-100Hz boom boom boom and definetly nothing down low. I personally don't listen to rap but my bro made a compilation of songs with "bass" to show off our system (for the record, I get relatively flat response down to 20Hz)...to his dismay there was absolutely no bass and he instantly was claiming the speakers were faulty. I then proceed to play some music with real bass and the whole house was rattling and he couldn't believe the difference. So my brother asks me why his mix sounded a ton "fatter" on his crappy pc setup and also in the car...basically, crap speakers have a ton of distortion and what one often hears as fat bass is all the extra harmonics and uncontrolled extension. One thing of interest is that the solid bass heavy music I played sounded like it had much less bass than the rap on my bro's systems (pc and car)...the reason for this is that my music had real LF information which the crappier speakers weren't even coming close to reproducing, so there was no over-exagerated upper low range to make it seem as if the system has bass. Anyways, it seems possible to me that you are now hearing this overexagerated upper lows on the recording, but you have turned up the subwoofer so that the deeper lows are matching the rest of the system. (which often makes things sound distorted even though they're not). If you really firmly feel the subwoofer isn't performing well, then I would bust out some test tones and see if the sub really doesn't play as low/loud as you think it should. Looking at your picture I would also try rotating the sub and see what impact that might have on the sound...you should have at least the active or passive driver pointing at the listening position. That sideways position really puts you off-axis from the main sound of the speaker. Btw, have you also dialed in the phase on your subwoofer? The fact that the lower crossover sounds better indicates that you might have some destructive interference in the 80Hz region. Correctly adjusting the phase on the subwoofer should greatly reduce these annoying effects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicholtl Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 Yo yo, Kyler, good to see you back again. I remember when you first came around, you were 16. Then you dropped off the face of the earth, only to return at legal-everything-but-drinking-age!!! Good stuff! Stick around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyler Cavers Posted July 28, 2005 Author Share Posted July 28, 2005 lol I know man, it was a long year, parents split, got a car (1990 Cougar) which is where all my time and money has been going) and then we moved so I didn't put much effort towards the Klipsch. Then I had this idea to get the sub I always wanted cause I made more money and felt it was time to add on, so here I am, and I think my original post was explained wrong. We were listening to this lil jon/ying yang twins stuff and this one song had this higher frequency bass pound, I dunno how much but the sub played and it and it sounded distorted and rattling etc. Im not worried about it, I can tell it's just a setting or my lack there of receiver options but I'm satisfied with the sub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicholtl Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 Please, for the love of all that is good and just in this world, stop listening to the Yin Yang twins!!! Have you seen their place on MTV Cribs? Man, those guys are SUCH posers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSoundBroker Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 Play around with your sub's positioning. The current placement puts it in a spot that is likely not going to give you a ton of impact. Room acoustics play a big role in getting good low frequency response so a bit of basic acoustic treatment may end up being in order. One think you can try...put your sub in the spot where you normally listen to music and play something you like. Then walk around the room until you find a spot where the bass seems right to you. Mark that spot and move the subwoofer there. You can also think about getting a parametric EQ (we like the Behringer's), but that normally requires a test setup (several calibrated mic's, USB Mixer, computer and software) to calibrate correctly and keep from really screwing things up. One advantage of going this route is that you can then run your fronts full range and tune the sub to blend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSoundBroker Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 ---------------- On 7/26/2005 8:11:38 PM travisc wrote: its odd, I listened to two 15" velodynes this weekend, particularly the scene in finding nemo were Darla taps on the tank. I was extremely impressed with the slam factor. I also think the fact that khorns were handling the 80 up part of it also contributed to the slam. I went home and tried some different placement options and got a little better. Two things I think contribute to the difference is the fact that the velodynes are sealed enclosure and the khorns adding the lower mids. It would be cool If some of you gurus would chime in here is the lack of hornloaded lows(80hz and up)responsible for the lack of slam, or do the passive radiators on the rsw's forfeit slam for rumble? ---------------- If you really want to match dynamic levels with K-Horns then you have to get a horn loaded sub. We tried a lot of different things with our dual bass bin LaScalas but as soon as we put a BDEAP sub in, it was instantly right. Fortunately the B-Deap is big...but not so big somebody with K-horns can complain! It is also in the price range of twin Velos or RSW's and will seriously outplay any of them both in volume and extension. And slam? You ain't heard slam until you tried one of those beasts! One of the few that can easily keep up with K-Horns! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyler Cavers Posted July 28, 2005 Author Share Posted July 28, 2005 aha, I don't listen to that ying yang twin stuff that much, more of an AC/DC, Eagles type of person. To tell you the truth I usually watch movies and stuff on them, Band of Brothers, Saving Private Ryan, Gladiator etc. Anything that brings out the true crisp clear notes that these speakers reproduce so well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northwestbob Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 ---------------- "Btw, have you also dialed in the phase on your subwoofer? The fact that the lower crossover sounds better indicates that you might have some destructive interference in the 80Hz region. Correctly adjusting the phase on the subwoofer should greatly reduce these annoying effects." ---------------- This is a second vote for checking the phase wiring for each speaker. Make sure both the mains and the sub are correctly wired in phase. Out of phase in the base region causes uneven losses. Judging from the photo of your set up your sound should be superb. Cheers, Northwest Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 ---------------- On 7/28/2005 9:48:32 PM SoundBroker wrote: If you really want to match dynamic levels with K-Horns then you have to get a horn loaded sub. We tried a lot of different things with our dual bass bin LaScalas but as soon as we put a BDEAP sub in, it was instantly right. Fortunately the B-Deap is big...but not so big somebody with K-horns can complain! It is also in the price range of twin Velos or RSW's and will seriously outplay any of them both in volume and extension. And slam? You ain't heard slam until you tried one of those beasts! One of the few that can easily keep up with K-Horns! ---------------- I don't see what is to be gained with the Bdeap subwoofer...it's already -20dB at 30Hz where the khorn is -3dB...but that's with 4 bdeap subs. The specs show it being slightly more than 20dB with 2 units...and 1 unit would be just as worse (which they don't even show). http://www.servodrive.com/SPL-bdeap32.html (links to the specs on the right hand side menu - click on the pictures). Btw, one of these bass units takes up over 18 cubic feet! You can get way more sub (same SPL and lower extension) and probably even less distortion with all sorts of other normal subwoofer systems...and even have a smaller cabinet. For example: with the same size cabinet, a single Avalanche 18 or 18" Adire Tumult will have a -3dB point at 15Hz and be capable of 118dB with 800/1000 watts of power. Or you could go with three 15" tumults in an 18 cubic foot cabinet and have a -3dB point at 18Hz with a max SPL of 126dB with 3000 watts. But since there is going to be room gain, you can probably get away with a smaller cabinet so as to counter the huge increase in output (which would be even greater when corner loaded). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyler Cavers Posted July 31, 2005 Author Share Posted July 31, 2005 new setup im thinkin about doing setup.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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