johnyholiday Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 i don't get it...what's this a measurement of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 Many thanks JohnnyH. To answer Dr. Who's question. The Karlson (as shown in the drawing) was just a box with a cut out in front which resembled a cross section of a horn. All sorts of outrageous claims were made about it, and it had a substantial following. Naturally there was, in fact, no technical merit to the claims. There is only so much you can do with a hole in a board. It is interesting to see that PWK measured it. Best, Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 so is the response that of a driver playing into the box? or mounted in the back shooting out? Shouldn't there be a normalization curve (like the response of the driver not in the box, perhaps the driver on an IB or something?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 PWK most likely measured it because it was his competition at the time. The Karlson was quite popular, being that it produced prodigious bass for the size of the box (see attachment) from an article posted by Gil. There are many different patents that use the exponential (Karlson) slot as a port, etc. Many different inventors evidently found there was something to it, regardless of current popular opinion. Watch for a commercial comeback, Karlsons are popular with the DIY crowd, too. However, although resurrected by the DIY crowd, the Karlson enclosure died out like the JBL Hartsfield (which sounded quite good); it may be that it cost more than the simpler reflex designs which were also smaller ( a desirable attribute for domestic use). Perhaps the pressures of the market place killed it, not that it lacked performance. I would really like to hear one with good drivers in it someday. I believe that they used a coaxial driver. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 I wouldn't expect PWK to promote anything from other competitors, of course, and the circumstances behind the testing is certainly suspect. In Dope from Hope, he reported that (assumption of Speakerlab K is made by myself) clones of the Khorn from the Pacific Northwest couldn't go below 70 Hz (or was it 80?). I've heard them for myself and that is just absolutely, patently untrue. It was a ver batim copy of a Klipschorn, why wouldn't it go below 70Hz?! Oh, please! So much for PWK's rigorous testing of compeditive products! Don't believe everything you read, even if from PWK - remember, he had his reasons! Well, enough of that... Here's the plans for the 15" driver version of the Karlson cabinet, which has a following even today. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 Just an example of the many exponential slot patents that are out there... This one is from the 1980's... The moral of the story is don't pass judgement unless you've heard it yourself... DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 Like I was implying, if it was so bad, why isn't it completely dead? Answer: there IS something to it... either that or all these people are crazy. I must admit that it is a nice looking thing that one doesn't necissarily want to cover up with a grill cloth. Perhaps that could be the attraction? This is a recent design for a 12" driver off the web. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 D-Man is dragging me back into the argument, if only as a source of the article. Good job. I believe the best analysis would be the basic driver and box tested with and without the front chamber and cut out. It could be that the effects are peaks in response we see. Then we'd have to decide which is better. In fairness to PWK, I think he picked up on an overstatement by SpeakerLab that the midrange went down to 70 Hz and his comment was "why didn't they use it as a woofer." The graphs of the SK response by him did show some healthy bass which could only have come from the woofer horn. Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 Hi, Gil. Yes, PWK mentioned imitations more than once, here is a hacked up version of the second DFH "More about Imitations"... DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnyholiday Posted September 13, 2005 Author Share Posted September 13, 2005 i found it interesting PWK was testing this box, shows another facet to his human being. below the meatloaf pa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnyholiday Posted September 13, 2005 Author Share Posted September 13, 2005 nassau coliseum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 I once heard a fella's Karlsons with co-axial 15" Evs, they sounded pretty good. They probably would have sounded good in a regular box too though. But as has been mentioned there is a Karlson Kult out there, the guys that made the Exemplar horn wrote an article in Sound Practices touting Karlsons as subs with VOTs. An astute old ex WE horny that some of us know is intriqued with the Karlson. Hey Gil, tell us about the RJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 Very cool post on the Meatloaf PA. Can anyone tell me the operating principle of this design? I don't understand the curved baffles in the front unless it's part of a 'horn' for bass vent system. Thanks, Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 The Karlson is a type 6B bandpass box (nomenclature from BassBox pro). The rear cavity is vented into the front cavity, the front cavity is vented to the outside via the slot. In a regular BP6B the HF response rolls off sharply due to the hemholtz behavior of the port. The Karlson slot is more of a broadband port, in part due to the angle of the baffel board WRT to slot, and the width of the slot. These really affect the HF response of the Karlson. The deep nulls in the response above 200hz are due to side-to-side resonances of the parallel walls in the front cavity. I have modeled the K-15 in BassBox and the impedance peaks agree with a real Karlson (impedance data provided by Fred Ireson). From 50hz~250hz the Karlson (with a proper driver for the box) has more output, and smoother output, than a similar sized horn (about the same bulk as just the bass horn section of a LaScala). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted September 19, 2005 Share Posted September 19, 2005 Ok, I found the PWK quote about an "imitator" on the West Coast (I assumed Speakerlab) not going below 70Hz... its from Speaker Builder magazine. However, since PWK didn't name any names (and he NEVER did BTW), it is left to us to figure it out. This is an aspect of PWK worthy of much respect. As another note, Speakerlab never got sued by PWK, nor anything else, so that might indicate that he wasn't talking about them... DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 Some Karlson literature... DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 Page 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 From 1957. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 Karlson's ...are Kool .......[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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