Design of my new Home Theatre

[Bimmeup]

Thought I'd post a picture of the design of my new Home Theatre and see what everyone's thoughts were. I sent a rougher sketch of this layout to Picky about 4-5 months ago and emailed back and forth with him quite a bit from time to time! So anyway, I decided to put it up on here to get everyone else's thoughts as well.

The HT is a themed one somewhat. A local friend of mine is a sculptor who does dinosaurs and so I talked him into a life size raptor made out of resin that he'll custom paint for me. He was actually the key sculptor and puppeteer for the T-Rex in the first Jurassic Park. Anyhow, I'm putting this monster in a recessed side of the HT for kicks and so I've called my HT "The Raptor Room".

I'm hoping the size of my room works pretty good and it seems like it does! Other than that, on the pdf layout is also the equipment list.

Let me know what you guys think?

BIMMEUP

[DrWho]

Does it have to be a rectangle? Making the rear of the room 4 feet

wider would have such a drastic improvement on the sound...or even

making the front 2 feet narrower and the rear 2 feet wider. It would

also make your raptor case more visible to the room (btw, is this going

to be behind a big glass wall or something?)

Also, it is good to avoid a dimension of 19' because that corresponds

to the wavelength of 60Hz, which will then amplify any AC noise that

makes it's way into your system (AC current oscillates at 60Hz). It's

probably one of the wierdest things I've ever experienced because even

with very quiet gear you will be able to hear it (when nothing is

playing of course).

And where is the main seating going to be? Have you considered setting

up your system on the wide wall? (basically putting your screen on the

left wall). It'd definetly make you a prime candidate for an all

heritage HT (khorn mains with lascala center sides and surrounds).

Just throwing ideas out there - you definetly have one killer setup going on there.

[Bimmeup]

Thanks for the advice DrWho!

My house is already into the full fledge building stage and the slab is going to be poured pretty soon here. So, the room itself is already set in stone as far as the rectangular design goes. I might try to do a couple of things different inside the room if I can but I'm not sure how that'll affect everything else!

The length of the room shows 19' but after talking to my architect, he said it's more like 18' overall!
The seating will be 2 rows of 3 chairs. One row right between the 2 steps and the other right behind it basically in front of the entry doors.

I originally had thought about placing the screen on the left wall but decided not to because of the placement of the surrounding rooms just outside the HT.

Now you said that if I did place it on the left wall, it would make me a prime candidate for the Heritage HT system? I'm not real familiar with the Heritage so you might be able to help me there!

As far as the THX Ultra 2 speakers go, they'll all be built into the main screen wall as I've spec'd that into the construction. I wanted them built in to give it a cleaner look without having speakers on stands. Also it's better that way because of my 5 kids as it keeps them away from accidentally being pulled over or messed with. I'm already pretty strict but you never know!

Anyway, thanks again for your help.
I guess I'll start calling all you guys on the board here the "Klipsch Guru's"

Bimmeup

[DrWho]

The "heritage" speakers would be arguably klipsch's flagship speakers.

The khorn and lascala are completely horn loaded for a very low

distortion sound. I think a heritage system would cost more than the

THX Ultra setup, but both will be very very nice setups for HT. I would

say the heritage is probably geared more towards music...

Anyways, if you are going to flushmount your speakers then there are

quite a few things to take into accout. First and most importantly, you

need to figure the correct toe-in for the speakers. I would first

recommend getting them as close to the sidewalls as possible (to

maximize the stereo seperation) and then you will want the speaker face

to be perpendicular to the line of site to the main listening position.

So put a dot in the middle of all the seating and draw lines to the

speaker and make them aim right down this line. This of course would

involve making the whole wall angled a bit too, but this will have

great acoustical advantages if you can swing it (not to mention I think

it looks cool too). Building a false wall is ok and makes the next part

easier to impliment...

When flushmounting, you can't just cut a hole in the wall and build a

shelf for the speakers to sit on. Ideally the speaker will be sitting

on its own speaker stand inside the wall and have absolutely no

physical connection to the wall or the studs holding the wall. You

would then build a cabinet inside the whole to encase the speaker, but

not touch it or the stand. You will want to make it a little bit too

big so that you can put acoutical foam around the inside and againt not

touch the speaker. You can then put trim around the face of the hole

that even overlaps slightly with the front face of the speaker...and

you will of course want to have the speaker as far forward as feasible.

I know it seems like a lot of extra trivial things, but this well

immensly improve the sound. By not taking the proper precautions you

will end up with a very "boxy" sound and that won't be any good.

In fact, when properly flush mounted you will notice a rather drastic

increase in the bass response....so you might even need to implement a

counter EQ to re-flatten the response! I've got diagrams somewhere

around here that show what I'm talking about. I'll see if I can't find

them.

[Bimmeup]

Thanks a ton! You're being a great help.

I think for sure I can have that front wall done like you said with the toe-in angled for the seating position. As for the speaker to be sitting on it's own speaker stand inside the wall, I don't think I'm following you there. Are you saying that the KL650 I'm placing for the fronts should be placed on some sort of stand inside the wall, yet it can't touch the cabinet that's around it? And even the acoustical foam itself shouldn't touch any part of the speaker housing?

I just don't think I'm understanding so please be patient with me. But I really do want the advice so I can make the right changes now.

As for the diagrams, that would be great.

Thanks again DrWho.

Bimmeup

[SCOOTERDOG]

Well said Doc!

[formica]

It's my understanding that the THX series were designed to be used

either "installed" or freestanding... so I'm figuring the Klipsch

manual must have some info this... esp when it comes to dispersion (and

toe in).

I don't have time to go through it, but would recommend looking there first.

ROb

PS: BTW, the themed Raptor room is a neat idea...

[damonrpayne]

Have you found a dealer for the Sony vpl vw100 yet?

[Bimmeup]

damonrpayne,

Yes! I'm not sure when they said they'll first be available but it was supposed to be within the next couple of months when they're released. The company I'm buying the Sony from is also the company that's selling me the THX Ultra 2's and other HT equipment as well. Very cool guys as they have given me a great deal on everything! This company is also doing my Elan Home System and so they gave me 7% off by combining my HT equipment with the Home System equipment. And that was 7% off the cost they were giving me on the HT equipment, not 7% off retail! After looking over everything and checking other prices elsewhere, they're treating me right and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them to anyone.

Bimmeup[]

[damonrpayne]

Bimmeup, you have a PM from me.

[Bimmeup]

formica,

I've looked at the pdf manuals for the THX Ultra's and haven't seen anything that talks about placing them in a wall! Now that being said, I remember reading somewhere that, like you said, they could be either placed into a wall or placed on a stand to be freestanding. The company I'm buying these speakers from actually took me to a model home that they installed the HT in. They had the Ultra's on stands but told me they could also be placed into a wall.

If anyone has any info on this, that would be great.

Thanks,

Bimmeup

[DrWho]

Are you saying that the KL650 I'm placing for the fronts should be placed on some sort of stand inside the wall, yet it can't touch the cabinet that's around it? And even the acoustical foam itself shouldn't touch any part of the speaker housing?

Correct.

You want to have no mechanical connection between your mains and the wall they're sitting in. The main reason is that you want to prevent any speaker cabinet vibrations from transferring to the wall. So the first logical step is to make sure they are not touching. The second step is to absorb the sound waves bouncing around on the inside. Also, the reason that you want to have an enclosure tight around your speaker (but not touching) is because it raises the frequency at which the trapped air will resonate. Since the HF driver won't be vibrating your cabinet as much as the woofers, you will be less likely to excite this resonation and therefore it will be less likely to transfer to your walls.

I should be able to post the diagrams by monday (I'll be outta town for the weekend and right now I'm writing from the school lab).

-

-

On a completely different note, I had one comment about your subwoofer location as well. There are certain advantages to having the subwoofers side by side (slightly lower extension and a 3dB increase in overall volume), but having them centered in the middle of the room will amplify horizontal room modes.

So instead, I would highly recommend placing each subwoofer 1/3 of the way in from the side walls. So in your 14 foot room, I would suggest placing them 4 feet in from the sides. Another location you might consider would be directly under your mains (so all the way in the corners). Ideally we would want to model the acoustics of your room and decide which placement is better, so I list these two as placement locations that have always worked very well in every situation I've been in. You should also consider flushmounting your subs as well as you will benefit greatly from baffle gain...in fact, I would anticipate an F3 as low as 16Hz by doing so []

One advantage to putting them right below your mains is that any distortions (ya, there are are going to be distortions) will be coming from the same location as the signal coming from the mains....this will greatly reduce the localizeability of the subwoofer (something that drives me nuts actually). But you will probably experience a flatter frequency response using the 1/3 rule. Though it would probably be easier to flush mount into the false wall that you will be building for your mains, but I'll leave all that up to you []

[Bimmeup]

DrWho,

Thanks again, this is really helping! I've already met with my architect regarding the toe-in for the outer speakers and I've also made a few other changes. The double doors will now be opening outward so that the 2 rows of seats can move back a little over a foot which should help.

As for the subwoofers, I'll take your recommendation. Just so you know, the subs are also built into the wall but on the floor. All the areas where the speakers will be placed in the walls are about an inch oversized all the way around so room for acoustic foam should be no problem.

Another question for you! As far as stands go for the speakers themselves, would rubber feet work to keep vibrations from transferring or do you have any other suggestion?

Thanks again,

Bimmeup

[JulieHeartKlipsch]

That is very cool about the T-Rex from Jurrassic Park and getting your own dinosaur from the same man. How big is it?

J.

[Bimmeup]

JulieHeartKlipsch,

The Raptor is about 9' long from tip of nose to end of tail. It stands 6' high at the head, 10' tall at the tip of the tail which swoops up. And then it's about 3' wide with the arms extended. The sculptor's name is Michael Trcic, a very nice guy and friend of mine. I had known him for years before I even found out it was him who did the TRex from Jurassic Park. Funny thing was, when I found out that he did that TRex, I went home and got out my dvd of Jurassic Park and went to the making of section and sure enough, there's Mike in the background sculpting the head! If you want to visit his website, it's www.trcicstudio.com . Actually, if you go to http://www.trcicstudio.com/tsbronzes/trcicbirdlife.htm you can see the actual Raptor that I'm getting.

Hope that answers your questions. I'll definately post some pictures of the room once it's done in about 10 months.

Bimmeup

[Tom Adams]

Ok.....my 2 cents worth and it has nothing to do with the audio portion of your room - Dr. Who has that covered in spades. My input has to do with your seating arrangement and is based upon the layout of my HT room.

My room is 28' deep. First row of seats are 13' from a 100" diagonal 16:9 screen. Allowing for comfortable walking room between my two rows and for the second row seats to recline, puts my second row almost 3' behind the first row. Add in the depth of the second row seats and space for the back of the seats to recline and there goes another 3'. Add that up and you're at 19'.

Just something to keep in mind when space planning your room.

Looks like you've got the making of a very nice room though. Can't wait to see pics of the final result. Please keep us posted. []

Tom

[Bimmeup]

Thanks for the advice Tom! I've attached an updated layout of the room with the newest changes.

I'm using Continental Seatings new Tsunami chairs due to the smaller headrest that will allow sound to come around them rather than block it off completely. You can view them at http://www.continentalseating.com/bravo_tsunami.html Regarding the seating, I've decided to go with curved rows vs. straight just so people aren't having to keep their heads turned for an entire movie! Also as Tom was mentioning the problem with space for 2 rows of chairs, I decided to use the wallsaver recliners for the front row so that when fully extended, the chairs will go forward rather than back. Then for the back row, I'm using regular recliners so that when extended, the chairs will go backward rather than forward. You can see on the pdf that I posted how the chairs will work! The gray outline areas of the chairs indicates the fully reclined positions for both rows!

As far as the layout is concerned, I've changed the design a little bit since getting some info from Dr.Who and others on here. The Left & Right speakers will now be angled in. The Subs I'm still trying to decide on what to do? I know according to Klipsch, the subs are meant to be placed together, but others are saying that I should place them apart and to the sides! They are built into the wall and flush mounted although still on the floor, not up inside the cabinet! Also, since I'm using the Quietrock throughout the entire room, I've decided to have the speaker niches fully walled with the Quietrock as well. I'm guessing that this should isolate the speakers somewhat. I'm still making sure there will be enough space to place the speakers on some sort of small stand inside the niches and also have enough room for the foam.

Anyway, that's the update for now.

Bimmeup

Matt

Raptor Room quarter inch curved rows.pdf

[gibby214]

Matt,

I've done some flush or soffit mounting speakers myself. I am using RB75's though. I followed about half of the rules when installing mine. When I get the extra time I will do it correctly.

Thanks Dr Who for the pic here.

http://forums.klipsch.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=50819&forumID=73&catID=19&search=1&searchstring=&sessionID={23FFB9CB-483B-4773-A081-035A7636A2C3}

http://www.genelec.com/support/soffit.php

Good luck

Gib

[gibby214]

Another try. LInk didn't work for me

http://forums.klipsch.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=50819&forumID=73&catID=19&search=1&searchstring=&sessionID={23FFB9CB-483B-4773-A081-035A7636A2C3}

[formica]

You'd have to manually clean up the info after the topic ID number... like this:

http://forums.klipsch.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=50819

[]