$600 subwoofer recommendation

[CAS]

I think actually since he mentioned the biggest problem was positioning and that the RSW-15 over 40Hz is much better and easily positioned, he is used to a bit of a boost in these frequencies (which does well with music tastes as the RSW-15 is touted for) and not extremely flat response. This sounds very much like the common difference between these two subs. Not a big suprise.

[Paul]

And again,

This is a klipsch forum, why are you recommending SVS?

Go to another forum.

[] Nice thread $600.00 sub ,Well I will take the rsw15 for $600.00[]

[Paul]

Exactly my point,

Mr. "never recommend anything you havent heard"

You are recommending an SVS model you never heard, much less own!

Whose got nothing to add now?

By the way, It doesnt matter what you own...because I was not referring to anything you own. Stop thinking we all want to touch your e-penis because you have 18+subs. Get over yourself.

I recommend the trinty to both of you, Id still be happy with Klipsch subs around $600.00 ![]there is alway's a different flavour.Lookin at something new now.

[Jay481985]

my doggy likes to eat dog biscuits.....

That is about as much relevant to the topic as that war is.

[Paul]

ancientdude




Joined on 11-09-2004
Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts 261

Re: RSW-15

I went into a dealer today and listented to the definitive...I dont think it goes quite as low and it does deep, honestly...my svs pc ultra could do much better!

---

Update: RF 7's - RB 5's, Rotel 1075, RSW-15

Second system: RF'3s, RC3, RS3
Other: Pair of Heresy II, Pair of Cornwalls


By applying this post ancientdude you know as much as a hole in the ground !

[TheEAR]

Paul,

A hole in the ground has more class and knowledge when compared with Ancient tool. The originator asked about subs in the $600 range,I proposed pretty mych the best $600 subs .And Ancient tool started having his period and got very agitated!

His avatar fits him like a glove! []

[Petrol]

Klipsch's Sub12 is a great sub for the money,,but the description you gave...you better wait and save for the larger SVS.You will thank me later,as the much larger SVS dwell deeper and have output the Sub12 cannot dream of at 16hz. Plain and simple

I no fan of pipe organ music so I'm just wondering... excuse my ignorance but how much of that music form is expressed in the lowest of low freq? most, alot, quite a bit, etc...

{EDIT: Dang.... I think I need to start reading the entire thread before I make a post.

screw my curiosity, I want no part nof this pissin match [:|] }

[TheEAR]

Petrol,

When listening to pipe organs a subwoofer capable of a solid 20Hz output is very important.And major information is present at 16Hz.

Most music and movies however have little information of value below 25Hz,so a Sub12 would be perfect.

Curiosity is very welcome

[CAS]

Petrol,

When listening to pipe organs a subwoofer capable of a solid 20Hz output is very important.And major information is present at 16Hz.

Most music and movies however have little information of value below 25Hz,so a Sub12 would be perfect.

Curiosity is very welcome

Can you recommend any good works? I have none but have always wanted to sample. Maybe a greatest hits. Not to derail the topic further but I figure it couldn't get much worse.

[TheEAR]

CAS,

You are correct I apologise to the Klipschers for my part,I should have ignored the BS.

Now as I posted many times you can get Pomp & Pipes a Reference Recordings RR-58CD.This is a classic example,track four The Vikings has deep bass that will stress test the most capable subwoofer and shake the foundation if your sub is a very capable one.

I use track four to test subs at dealers and separate the would be greats from the elite in true deep bass.As any lacking serious sustained output at 16Hz fails poorly.This track is that demanding.And those who are not submerged by abyss like bass simply lack the sub capable of true deep bass. Try it your sub should do well.

[fanbrain]

I would recommend two maybe three CD's.

Organ of the Mormon Tabernacle (Klavier K 11044)

Romantic French Fantasies (Klavier K 11069)

That organ is simply world class. Outstanding.

I have a recording of the Atlantic City Auditorium Organ (the largest organ in the world) that has two 64' stops that play into the 8 hz region. It's not the nicest sounding organ nor the most in tune, but the sheer quantity of sound and dynamics that come from it is outstanding. I have yet to hear it played on a system capable of reproducing the bass division and do it justice.

http://www.acchos.org/html/store/cd_detail.html

[TheEAR]

Fanbrain,

Thanks for the info,I'll check it out.

[fanbrain]

OK. ONE more question.

I've recently become interested in the cylindrical subwoofers that SVS offers. I'm wondering how the following two compare to each other. Thanks in advance.

16-46 PCi

PB12-ISD/V

also, how would the 16-46 PC-Plus compare to the forementioned (it's priced higher than the $600 price point that I started the thread with, but I just got a promotion at work so maybe I can swing it).

[TheEAR]

Fanbrain,

The 16-46 is tuned to 16Hz,it represents the best value in very deep bass performance.The box sub using the same woofer and tuned at 16Hz will perform about the same.

Both the subs you pointed will have more output compared with the 10" SVS box sub. And reach deeper tahn the Sub12 as well as the HSU VTF10.

Now to make a fair comparo you woudl have to take a VTF12 and compare it to a SVS using the 12" ISD woofer. Both are very close,SVS having a slight adavantage in extreme deep bass output.

First I would take a good look at the SUb12 and give it a listen.And then you decide if it satisfies your deep bass needs.Only you will know this answer.

[TheSoundBroker]

Hmmm...came into this one late. Anybody mention the Hsu VFT-3 (not the "HO" version, the regular Mk II one)? In plain black, it sells at $699 and can probably be had a bit closer to $600. That sub has strong output capabilities to 20hz and a bit below. I picked up the line recently...good stuff.

Also, arguing about subwoofer frequency extension without looking at room acoustics, treatment and equalization is USELESS. You could put any of the subs argued over in the space, but if you have a 22 db null centered at 20hz at the listening position, you ain't gonna get squat for extension. To achieve power and response, you need a space that is well balanced, acoustically, treated and a BFD aint' a bad idea. I'd venture a statement that a cheap sub with proper room treatment and equalization will outperform a bigger sub with more extension in a crappy room. I've put RSW-15's in rooms that were poorly designed and laid out where the owner's wouldn't consider any treatment, and achieved extension to 25 hz and nothing below (and that was with a lot of effort). I've put RSW-15's in other rooms that were bass trapped. well dimensioned, and calibrated with a BFD and we got 108 db at 18hz at the stops. Same exact subwoofer, two totally different results.

[TheEAR]

Better be on time,next time. Very true,in a bad acoustic spot in a room that eats bass so to speak you could have a SVS PB2-Ultra and the output down deep could be very disaponting compared to a much lesser sub in the ideal room and the best spot.Sure thing

But you better start with the sub that has the most linear response down deep,while sustaining as high output as possible.You put the known factors on your side.The room for most people who will never even use measuring gear is most of the time a guess.And very often you find the good spot for a sub,the spot with satisfactory performance.

[CAS]

Better be on time,next time. Very true,in a bad acoustic spot in a room that eats bass so to speak you could have a SVS PB2-Ultra and the output down deep could be very disaponting compared to a much lesser sub in the ideal room and the best spot.Sure thing

But you better start with the sub that has the most linear response down deep,while sustaining as high output as possible.You put the known factors on your side.The room for most people who will never even use measuring gear is most of the time a guess.And very often you find the good spot for a sub,the spot with satisfactory performance.

Very true. It would be a bit silly to buy extra equipment, design/build a special room and treat it accordingly then dish out a measly $600 bucks for a sub. Much more time/cost worthy to just get a more capable machine.

[OneTwoMany]

Exactly my point,

Mr. "never recommend anything you havent heard"

You are recommending an SVS model you never heard, much less own!

Whose got nothing to add now?

Little one you want to argue,great.I have plenty of time []

You see little one,SVS subs like Sunfire subs follow a pattern.A small SVS will sound almost the same to the largest,most powerful SVS save the headroom and capacity to fill a room and have the extra output down very deep.

I do not need to own all the subs I recomend.I will listen to the top of the line,then a much less expensive one and based on specs make an educated guess that works 100% of the time.

Nothing to add,do not be a silly wabbit.You are for a very long run and a hard reality check.

He is more or less right. They do sound very similar and you don't need to hear all of them to get the kind of intuition he has about them. If you have heard the PB12+ then you can pretty much guess what the +/2 will sound like. Ironically the sunfire and svs woofers are made in the same building, but thats just a bit of off topic trivia. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

[DrWho]

Very true. It would be a bit silly to buy extra equipment, design/build a special room and treat it accordingly then dish out a measly $600 bucks for a sub. Much more time/cost worthy to just get a more capable machine.

You are assuming that the $600 sub wouldn't sound better after room treatment...

Room acoustics are easily responsible for over 50% of the "sound" for LF material. It doesn't matter how good of a driver you put into the room because it cannot exceed the performance limited by the acoustics. Heck, get yourself a sub that can do 700dB @ 20Hz and then plop yourself down at one of the nulls...you're simply not going to hear anything. Just don't move your head out of the null because it would probably explode []

It is most certainly not always more time/cost worthy to go with the biggest baddest sub. But it's kinda pointless to talk in such generalities because when it comes down to purchasing, you've got yourself a specific room and specific subs in your pricerange. It is important to take the entire picture into account.

[Petrol]

Petrol,

When listening to pipe organs a subwoofer capable of a solid 20Hz output is very important.And major information is present at 16Hz.

Most music and movies however have little information of value below 25Hz,so a Sub12 would be perfect.

Curiosity is very welcome

Thanks for the info Ear, and thank you all for the pipe organ music recommendations... I amy have to sample some next time I want to demonstrate to my wife how disappointing my old SW-10 really is... of-course I have to work on getting her to move from her favorite seat which in my setup is not the best "listening-position" but does happen to be the best spot in the room to hear and feel the bass