AMP QUESTIONS - MULTI ZONE

[rlr267]

Summer is here and I still have not installed the speakers on my deck

and pool areas. Here is the problem, I don't think my reciever

will drive these speakers and I need an amp and speaker selector.

So, I need advice.

I have a Yamaha RX-V757 with two zone output, and pre-out on both

zones. I am running a 7.1 Home Theater on the main zone but at

this time, the zone B speakers are not installed. I bought four

(2 pair) of AW-650 speakers to put outside and my wife wants to put

speakers in the master bedroom area, so I will have at least 6 speakers

(3 pair) and possibly more later that I need to drive off the Zone B

selector. It is power assignable, but I would rather run to an

amp and be able to run more than one pair at a time. My question

is this:

Can I come out of my receiver's pre-out jacks into a two channel amp,

then to a speaker selector with volume controls then to the

speakers? Or, do I have to find an amp with 6 channels

output and use my receiver as the input source?

Considering both options, which is best?

I am on a budget too, I told my wife I could put the HT in for $1000,

then busted that budget all the hell (when she heard the Klipsch

speakers, she told me she wanted them even if it cost more . . .

I love that woman []) but she now has me on a short leash when

it comes to more audio gear. I know Onkyo makes a M-282 which is

two channel 100 Watts per channel at 8 ohms (140 at 4 ohms).

Anyone have an opinion on this unit?

Alternatively, can anyone tell me if the Alesis or Crown amps are any good? Suggestions are welcome.

[rplace]

Not sure I can answer all your questions, but I can tell you what I did and why. Perhaps it will give you some ideas.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Initially I had grand ideas of an LCD control pad in any location I wanted music in. This way I could select source, control volume, change tracks, FF, Rewind, etc. I think you will find this sort of functionality adds up quickly (I doubt you can do it for a grand). I took a step back and said what I really want. The answer was music in my work out area, music outside at my pool and music where my billiards table is. Furthermore I just wanted music. Tunes for the background of life, not critical listening while I am underwater swimming or drinking a rum drink.

If you got a few hundred CDs then you probably like most of that music, right? Else why would you have it? Rip all your music to MP3 or your favorite format. Then get some sort of HTPC, modded X-box or dedicated music server. You can spend from less then 200 to over a grand on that. A budget of 300 or less will give you way more then you need. So now you don't need to switch between sources you got 1000s of songs cataloged by artist, genre, etc. You can play all your music randomly; make play lists for specific occasions (Party, holiday, dinner, nobody-home-rocking). The only limitation is you.

With the source taken care of you just need to get that music to multiple places. I needed 3 locations in addition to my dedicated room. I use the 2nd zone of my HT pre/pro to feed on separate amp that in turn goes to a <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Niles 3 selector box. The Niles thing fits into a Decor outlet box. I put the Niles 3 selector box in an area that is close to the pool table; work out room and door leading to the pool.

All I do is go to the main room to fire up the music server, select zone 2 and start up the entire collection of several thousand songs or just the play list I want for the desired mood. On the way to whatever activity (pool shooting, working out or swimming) select the appropriate location. Finally in each location I have volume knob that I can turn to raise and lower the volume. I set zone two on my pre/pro to about 80% of max. This way I have it as loud or as quiet in the various locations. Depending on the type of volume selector you choose you can run multiple speakers at a time or just one set.

The Niles box, three volume controls and associated in wall wire cost me less then 250 I would guess. Wiring up the selector switch and volume knobs is childs play.

Almost forgot the volume things also fit in Decor outlet boxes. This way you can put the volume thing in a double gang box with the light switch to that room. Walk in, turn on the lights, set the volume and let the good times roll.

Sounds like you are on your way already with speakers and multi room pre/pro. You don't even need a music server with ripped CDs if you have a CD changer. You could start with 5 CDs on random and work up to a HTPC or music server. Modded X-box is cheap and very powerful.

Good luck...it is a fun project and very rewarding. I can shoot some pix this weekend if you like. Just let me know

EDIT:
Just to be clear the wiring is:

One set of speakers wires from the 2^nd amp to the Niles box.
One set of wires from the Niles box to EACH volume control for a total of 3 sets of wires
One set of wires from each volume control to each speaker.

One set of wires = a right/left pair.

[colterphoto1]

I have the Yamaha RXV2400, while not the same year as yours, I think the zone/amp functionality would be the same.

You have two sets of pre outputs, one is the main and operates like any normal receiver. Then there is a second selector switch, the Zone 2, that allows the same or different source to be routed through the receiver as well. This used to be called Record Out on Yammies, so I could watch/listen to HT whilst recording LP or CD -> Cassette. It works the same.

You have 7 channels of amp onboard. You can use them as 5 for your theatre and 2 for the zone 2 or use all 7 for the HT as you have done.

So you still have the capability of running any source (CD, DVD, LP, FM) out of the ZONE 2 pre-out, into any 2 channel amp to power your patio speakers. The main system will function exactly as before. In essence you are getting double duty out of your source components. I don't see how the YPAO or tone controls could affect the ZONE 2 output, so some type of integrated amp or eq might work better than a monster amp. If its just party noise for the patio, I shouldn't think that you'd need massive amounts of power.

My system uses only 5 channels for the HT, so 2 cables run out of the B speaker outputs to my garage LS. I also have my office and main room receivers linked via CATV wire through unused aux in/outs, so anything playing on one system can be routed to the other. The office stereo also runs a Niles box, which will route speaker level outputs to other rooms in the house. It can get quite complicated, as Rich has so aptly described.

Michael

[rlr267]

Thanks for the input. I do have a 300 disc CD player, so that is

already taken care of and I don't need volume controls in the Master,

patio, or pool areas. I was planning on either using the volume

on the receiver or getting a speaker selector with volume controls on

it.

My question involves setting up to run all speakers at the same time

for parties. At least the Main speakers in the house and the

outdoor speakers at the same time. My yard is too small for the

speakers I bought, so volume will not be a problem, the speakers

running off the selector switch will be for background use only.

If I am wanting to sit and enjoy music, I listen in the living

room. I just want to be able to set music for outside when we are

entertaining on the patio or having a few friends over to play in the

pool.

I know I could run into a speaker selector and power one pair of

speakers at a time, or if it is an impedance matching box, run no more

than two pairs. As I understand, to impedence match, the speaker

selector uses some of the power to create an artificial

impedence. IE: 100 watts output at 8 ohms from the receiver

will be divided between the speakers (assuming I am running two pair)

the power will be split 50watts per speaker, then the selector box has

to create resistence and uses 1/2 of the power for that purpose,

meaning only 25 watts makes it to the speakers. I don't need a

lot of sound at the pool, but I want it to sound good and I just don't

see these speakers operating well on only 25 watts.

With this information, what amp should I use? I saw one made by

Alesis that looks good, 300 Watts at 8 ohms X 2 and if I understand

correctly, it has built-in impedence selection, so if I run 3 pairs of

speakers at once, the amp selects the proper impedence. Is this

possible? Should I get an impedence matching speaker selector

anyway?

What about suggestions on amps that will fit my needs without breaking

the bank. I have everything I need, except the selector and

the amp.