D-MAN Posted June 7, 2006 Author Share Posted June 7, 2006 Well, ok, I'll repost it for everyone. Dana The%20Tratrix%20Horn%20Contour.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscarsear Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 Very nice set up. I'm toiling with enclosure options for a top cabinet as well. I'll try to post pics as I go along. I use a center mono channel in my system. As such I've found it very much to my liking to bring to side mid-range and tweeter to the periphery and forward. The center channel is just a mid-range and tweeter and sets to the rear of the set up. Hope the pics works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscarsear Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 Pic # 2 I've got Al K ESN for the Khorns and he made a special crossover for the center channel. The mid rivers are 2482. The side mid horns are P-audio and I'm using a 2380 horn in the middle. The center channel tweeter sits s atop the quilt hanging. I hope to bring all of the tweeters in line if and when I get done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscarsear Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 I've had slate cut to sit atop each Khorn so that I can remove the stock top horn section but as yet have not installed it. Is it just a matter of choice or are there some serious qualities to be derived from the upper cabinet? I'm toying with the idea of wall mounting the upper speakers or just using support brackets and leaving the drivers visible (they are impressive). Comments...ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted June 7, 2006 Author Share Posted June 7, 2006 That slate is going to look AWESOME! What a great idea! My original design was with a free-standing horn in an enclosing frame with grill cloth (which I have still not finished), so that it looks somwhat like the traditional Khorn top, but with an ability to direct the high frequency output from "cover" so to speak. Flemming kept the free-standing horn idea and created an top enclosure which can turn separately from the bass bin. Then there's the very elegant "naked" finished wood horn that just sits on the bass bin. If you have the money, that's your best bet in my opinion... ala Martinelli. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted June 7, 2006 Author Share Posted June 7, 2006 However, with that slate, I would go sans cover and definitely wood horn. Here's an example from Martinelli's website: http://www.woodhorn.com/woodhorns.htm\ Some problems come part and parcel with this approach, though... What do you do with the crossover? Are you using horns that need a baffle, etc. These things I think are the hardest part of putting together a nice looking (i.e., high WAF)package. Dana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted June 7, 2006 Author Share Posted June 7, 2006 Forum member Tigerwoodhorns has another great top cab design. So does Big-Dn-Fay. There's bunches, it depends on your particular lashup and whether to go "topless" or not... with that slate, the temptation to go "topless" would be undeniable for me! DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscarsear Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 DMan... I've got ideas and I see ideas and I want the things to look good. The slate came to me when we were at a home show. I figured I could use the weight and get a great seal on the bass bin and have an interesting front and top surface. Wood horns would be pretty and pretty hefty on the pocket book. Insofar as the WAF goes it is not a problem, per se. She really cares less about how they look as long as I get it done in some refined manner. That is the source of my intimidation/procrastination. I think she'll give me only one shot at it and if I'm not pleased with it I'm stuck. The other thing is that whatever I do for the Khorns also needs to blend well with what happens to the center channel set-up also. I s'pose I oughta just suck it up and figure something out.[:|] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted June 8, 2006 Author Share Posted June 8, 2006 Yes, I hear you! Flemming's approach would show alot of the slate top (which I think is absolutely necessary!) and still allow everything to be enclosed and kept out of sight. I especially like his raised and shaped platform underneith. That's my 2 cents. Good luck, and again, the slate is an excellent idea! I'm still WOWED by it! Dana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valde Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 Happy newyear, There has been some progress in my project (Dana's V2 bas bin). The JBL2380 horn has been retired and the replacement is at the moment JBL2397. I wrote at the moment because I plan to do a scaled version of the JBL2397, which will go 200 Hz lower. But to the sound of my system. Just after newyear I did change my x-over filter from 750 Hz to 500 Hz. The sound did change dramaticlly. My very first impression was that the combined system was even more wider in the sound. I would say that the sound has now a very impressive spatial "body" which are completely in-line with my taste. Again, I would say that the bas bin is some of the best I had ever build in my 25 year's dedication to Hi-Fi. The low end is VERY powerfull and dynamic. This earlier mentioned "booming" I have written about is completely surpressed, I can't hear it and the only "noise" I have in the system is 50Hz from my valve amplifier and some notes due to the shape of my livingroom. Some of the notes is supressed by a notch designet to work at around 150 to 225 (4dB down) The result of the change to 500 Hz is a confirmation to Dana's theory about the mouth reflections and subtraction of higher frequencies, from the woofer, that end up in a so called "horn" sound, but it seem that I had to go through this hi-fi work myself (recognition of the ability, not to run to high in a front loaded enclosure) and do have a better understanding today ;-) Some people on the net claim that the mid horn (JBL2397) is not able of running at that low frequency but to my ears it sound very nice to me.The horn has a incredible spatial performance (140 degrees) and if you run over such a pair, buy them (they are easy to get rid of again!). They are very flat from 500 to 10000 Hz. So I'm a very happy Hi-Fi nut ;-) Best regards Flemming P.S I can't remember how to upload a picture of my mid's and high. Dana if you are able of uploadning the 10-12-06_1247.jpg picture in a earlier mail then feel free ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valde Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 Did, by accident, post a replica of the previous ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted January 9, 2007 Author Share Posted January 9, 2007 Thanks Flemming. The Smith horn is on hold? I thought you bought the internal flare parts from Martinelli? Dana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valde Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Hi, Yes my scaled version is on hold although I nearly has all the parts. No, the internal flares is done by me with a jig saw (stiksav) covering a radius of 104 cm. The ones from Martinelli is designet to fit to a replica of the Smith horn (JBL2397). I have scaled the horn 200 Hz below the original, that means the internal flares has a length of 34 cm instead of the 20,5 cm in the original. The horn will be to wide if I completely follow the overhang JBL has done (from the flares to the mouth of the horn) so I will make a compromise around 1m wide (overhang equals flare length/4 instead of flare length/2 as JBL did). Flemming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Valde....I have a 1 meter version of the Smith horn, plus another at 3 feet wide The difference between the 3ft & the one meter version sonicly proved nothing of value..One meter unit was built in 1951... to incorperate 2" throat drivers...The JBL 2397 (i have) definitly will go down to 500hz, But just barely at home levels. with no problems..The Smaller Martinelli units with 6" septa vanes can be problematic....My measurments say the vanes are too big....Im working on a smaller version....About 10 years ago i made a very small Smitty that was perfect..tweeter version... Im trying to find the plans to that one....Remember the Septa vanes must be shaped to the proper expotential shape....One end will be wider for that horn size & not semetrical at both ends....I do not believe the Martinelli plots are accurate....He scaled his from the Lansing Heritage site...I believe those were inacurate.....Also his adapter coller needed some better transition work. Make sure the septa vanes are smooth & slick as glass. Im anxious to see/hear your results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valde Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Maron, Thanks for your information regarding the smith horns. Yes the JBL way of doing the vanes is completely symmetrical. Although I do belive in that construction because the mathmatical "fail" compared to a true exponential development is very small. As I understand the horn performance is the way from straight, conical and (hyp)exponential only a matter of performance at the low end which means the so called roll off. JBL did do a kind of overhang and I think that this was done to compensate or improve the horn at the low end ;-) And yes I have "smoothed" the vanes as much as possible. I have the possibility to put them in a anechoic chamber and see how they will performe, when I'm finished with then. for now I will enjoy my rock music (the last half year I have been doing tweaking and listening in relation to the x-over filter). Can you post a picture of the wide horn you have, I'm very curious about it and I will also return when I do some progress with the Smith's [] Regards Valde Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Valde.....the largest horn is in storage & came out of a mono system its big and bulkey looks top heavy sitting on top of bass bin ...I wish i had two...It takes alot of wood & time to make another....Ill take a picture of it......I also have paper templates to this horn....& blue prints to a throat adapter.....Paul Klipsch had seen this large Smith horn many many years ago and heard it...& commented he wanted some thing to fit in a upper cabinet for the Khorn. The 31" wide units I have now sitting on top of bass bins are now a better proportion. xover set at 400hz although i could set them at 350hz. Useing a triamp electronic crossover system. Bob Smith did the design for the JBL 2397.....I under stand he is still alive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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