Semi budget reciever?

[Kris B Krunch]

Thanks for all the responses everyone. Lots of good info and suggestions there. I'm going to go and look at a few different ones tonight and try to listen to wich one sounds best for the money. I'll post here if I buy one tonight.

[xdetroitx]

I agree with it being a gimmick. But, it does set speaker distance rather well and saves me using the old tape measure.

I am completely happy with Yamaha and I dont see myself switching brands anytime soon. The reason Yamaha uses two different lines is to keep the specialty stores in business. Your local audio visual center cannot sell for the same prices as Best Buy. I have learned the only thing you should pay sticker price for in Best Buy is their gum. Best Buy will come down on everything in the store to make the sale. Yamaha does not want comparison shoppers going to the specialty stores saying they can get the same one at Best Buy for such and such a price. Your local stereo shop cant buy 10,000 recievers and sell them at a 10% profit and stay in business. Bust Buy can and does. And yes Bust Buy only sells models under 1000.

[colterphoto1]

lol guys, Yamaha wouldn't have earned their bright reputation if there

wasn't at least some truth behind the matter. Relative to similarly

priced models of the competition Yamaha gear will tend towards the

brighter side. They definetly don't make anything that sounds dull (or whatever the opposite of bright is).

Denon is on the dry side, HK is on the warm mushy side. Pioneer is

somewhere inbetween Denon and Yamaha. Pick your flavor. They sound more

alike than different.

Choosing the reciever based on the feature set is a good way to go. And

I personally think the auto-calibration mics are marketing gimmicks.

Doc, you surprise me- helping to perpetuate an old-wives tale.

Tell me, how much quality listening time have you spent with any of the brands you have listed? You've owned HOW MANY top quality receivers in your life?

Michael

[colterphoto1]

lol guys, Yamaha wouldn't have earned their bright reputation if there

wasn't at least some truth behind the matter. Relative to similarly

priced models of the competition Yamaha gear will tend towards the

brighter side. They definetly don't make anything that sounds dull (or whatever the opposite of bright is).

Denon is on the dry side, HK is on the warm mushy side. Pioneer is

somewhere inbetween Denon and Yamaha. Pick your flavor. They sound more

alike than different.

Choosing the reciever based on the feature set is a good way to go. And

I personally think the auto-calibration mics are marketing gimmicks.

Doc, you surprise me- helping to perpetuate an old-wives tale.

Tell me, how much quality listening time have you spent with any of the

brands you have listed? You've owned HOW MANY top quality receivers in

your life?

Michael

[colterphoto1]

yes Firedawg, that is exactly the paragraph I was referring to.

M

[colterphoto1]

I did some research. You can go to the Yamaha/Product Info/AVR site and

now directly compare receivers in both the RXV and HTR series!

I dug around to find two with the same MSRP and if you do the HTR5860

and the RXV657, you will see nearly identical RMS measurements (and the

HTR's 2-20k is now listed).

At $549 both offer nearly the same features, with the RXV slightly

tipping the scales with the Rec out/Zone 2 switching and the ability to

use the extra two amp channels (if you run 5.1 instead of 7.1) to this

extra zone. So you can have a second powered zone without adding any

extra equipment.

Remember when comparing power, that it takes DOUBLE the wattage to make

3 db of difference. So a receiver with 85 WPC isn't that much different

from 105 wpc.

Another even-dollar comparison is the HTR 5990 and the RXV 2500. XM

radio is standard, as is HDMI terminals on the newer designed 5990.

Both MSRP at $1099.

Michael

[xdetroitx]

I did some research. You can go to the Yamaha/Product Info/AVR site and

now directly compare receivers in both the RXV and HTR series!

I dug around to find two with the same MSRP and if you do the HTR5860

and the RXV657, you will see nearly identical RMS measurements (and the

HTR's 2-20k is now listed).

At $549 both offer nearly the same features, with the RXV slightly

tipping the scales with the Rec out/Zone 2 switching and the ability to

use the extra two amp channels (if you run 5.1 instead of 7.1) to this

extra zone. So you can have a second powered zone without adding any

extra equipment.

Remember when comparing power, that it takes DOUBLE the wattage to make

3 db of difference. So a receiver with 85 WPC isn't that much different

from 105 wpc.

Another even-dollar comparison is the HTR 5990 and the RXV 2500. XM

radio is standard, as is HDMI terminals on the newer designed 5990.

Both MSRP at $1099.

Michael

The major difference being I was able to score the htr5860 for 349.00 open box at Best Buy. I saved 200 dolloars and all I was shorted was my fm antenna attachment.

[Jay481985]

but distortion jumps exponentially also, so while the guy with the 85 watt reciever tries to get every last bit of power on the reciever and brings it to audible distortion levels, the 105 watt reciever might not have that much distortion even at said 85 watts, the max of the other reciever.

[DrWho]

Doc, you surprise me- helping to perpetuate an old-wives tale.

Tell me, how much quality listening time have you spent with any of the

brands you have listed? You've owned HOW MANY top quality receivers in

your life?

Just because you enjoy yamaha gear doesn't mean it doesn't have a

signature sound. And "bright" isn't necessarily a bad thing. If you

enjoy your gear that's all that matters, no need to be so defensive.

How many hours must I have with a piece of gear in a good acoustical

setting with good speakers before I can comment on its sound? I most

certainly don't need to own a piece of gear to know how it sounds. My

freaken goodness.

[colterphoto1]

Doc,

All I'm asking is do really feel you have a personal knowledge base from which to make your statements about the four receivers you mentioned?

Or are you repeating what you think you read here? Don't feel bad, I've been guilty of the same thing.

Now think about it, have you really spent much quality time in serious listening to modern examples of each of the brands you commented on?

yer pal

Michael

[DrWho]

Well I have countless hours with Denon recievers of all types, cheap to

expensive in over a dozen acoustical settings. In addition to that "I"

have owned 3 different Denon recievers, 2 cheap ones and one

"expensive" one.

WIth Yamaha the most listening I've had is at your place. Since then

I've made it a point to visit my friends back home who have yamaha in

their systems. None of them have klipsch, but speakers like B&W,

Vienna Acoustics, Tannoy etc etc... I've probably got 50 hours there

outside of the listening at your place.

WIth HK, I've had many hours at my ex-best friend's house who was

running RF-3II's. The system has expanded a few times over the years

starting at a mediocre HK and moving to two different expensive HK's.

The last update was moving to surround sound and an RSW-12 subwoofer. I

have also heard a couple other modern HK systems for short times in

other homes (again, non-klipsch). And then I've heard the HK x30 series

in half a dozen homes now (all with klipsch).

Pioneer I have the least experience with the Elite series, but have

heard it in two homes now with speakers I'm familiar with. And I have

too much experience with their piece of crap normal lineup, but that's

not fair to mention because every brand has some crap in their lineup.

But because of it I'm slightly biased against Pioneer.

In additon to all of that I have done the typical comparison testing in

the local audio boutique stores. It's never a good acoustical

environment, but you can still hear the typical differences between

brands. I haven't talked to every engineer from every company, but the

few I've had the chance to ask a few questions have claimed that they

take great effort to make sure they maintain a common sound between all

the lines. When a customer becomes a fan of their product, many of the

things they attribute to the product being better are actually

intentional colorations - mostly the result of the compromise chain

they have deemed most important. There's nothing wrong with this

because even speakers and rooms have certain signature sounds.

Combining these sounds together is what system synergy is all about;

achieving an intentionally voiced system that complements the listening

tastes of the end-user. And to keep things in perspective, I always

claim that recievers sound 90% identical...so the differences in sound

are only with that last 10%...

But I also compare my impressions with those of others to make sure I'm

not crazy. There are plenty of people out there with more experiences

between certain brands and I try to factor those into my perceptions as

well. But it seems the quick summary I gave lines up pretty well with

the general consensus? If not, then more specific discussion is

necessary - I'm certainly not going to go into this much detail with

every single thread like this. And I always try to mention when my

viewpoints aren't globally accepted (like cornwall over khorn or RF-3

over RF-7).

I hope none of this comes across as offensive/defensive...just trying

to share where I'm coming from. I always attributed the wives tale as

being "Yamaha is bad because it's bright" - I never

considered "Yamaha is brighter than the direct competition" as being the wives

tale. Subtle differences, but it's an important distinction. Bright can

often be a good thing.

If I may be so bold; in your situation you have a rather darker

sounding room (wood panelling, carpet, plaster walls/cieling), but that

mates well to the yammie that opens (brightens) things up. It's a

double benefit because the darker acoustics get rid of a lot of other crap

that you don't have to deal with. I think a

Denon (my favorite) or HK would sound worse in your room. Didn't

you once have a Denon in your setup and you quickly got rid of it?

Anyways, that's why I try to avoid claiming any brand is better than

another as it is totally dependant on the situation. Kinda like picking

the right mic for a singer.

[Fish]

Dr Who's mini review of the mentioned avrs is just about exactly as I would describe.I'm not biased in the least,Denon makes great HT avrs,reliable and easy to operate but a little boring for music (dark?)Pioneer is not bright but it's close.Yamaha is a little bright in my opinion but that does not have to be a bad thing,only if you don't want bright.HK is warm and has a nice full sound(the 630/635 I know)for 2ch.If ten people hear em' they may give ten different opinions but thats the way I see it after owning several of each in the past few years.I've heard many say Klipsch are bright but I still like em',bright don't =bad.

[firedawg24]

What Dr who mentioned about having a dark room was on spot, at least in my experience. I had tile floors and my system sounded very bright and too reflective. Hurrricane Wilma forced a total remodel of my home and I chose to put in hardwood floors and replaced the roof and ceiling in my living room with exposed cedar beams and a pine tongue and groove. Since then its like I have a whole new HT setup. It's very warm yet maintains a sense of clarity and accuracy and the harshness is absent.

I would bet that no matter what brand is chosen it will truly come down to the listening environment. I would venture to say that most people have not listened to many different brands in the exact same set up ie. same room, same speakers, same set up. Personally at this price point, which is where I'm at, I think options and features are more important. Anyhow, that is just my opinion.

Dave C

[colterphoto1]

geesh Doc, don't get so defensive.[]

Actually that's exactly where I wanted you to go. Facts and experiences rather than just spout out 'this is so'. Good job on backing up your opinion. I wasn't baiting you but just wanted you to give your real personal opinions. Because I know when you go listen to someone's system- you LISTEN. Every time I've sat you down in front of something new or seen you at Woo's or Todd's, there's this look of concentration and I can see the gears turning.

You might not know a lot about musical history or forms of rock and all the legends, but you do know your gear and are pretty apt at describing your experiences. This will serve you well in your avocation.

Your analysis of my room was correct. I have always had similar rooms and always Yamaha. You'll notice I don't have a newer Yamaha in the hard surfaced gallery with the Khorns, it's the old 'warm' HK, right? []

Michael

[DrWho]

lol, you are always such a riot [] Sorry if I took it a little the wrong way. I'm dying to hear those khorns in your gallery - is it anything like woo's place?

[colterphoto1]

Actually pretty similar. He has wood paneling, the rooms are almost identically sized, He has the Scott tube gear and I'm using the little HK.

I don't listen to it very loud in there. But it's sooooo clean and smooth. The Khorns excite the whole room, feels like the floor is pumping out bass!

btw, I'm not doing Picky's thing, will be camping that weekend.

M

[Kris B Krunch]

Didn't get a chance to go last week, went camping, and then straight back into work, but managed to check one store out tonight after work(was the only one still open)

Anyways, found some toshiba models that look good.

Found the RX-V657 for $570 (all prices in canadian dollars)

the newer model, apparently only differences are it has ipod connection and extra set of coponent inputs for $670 or $899 with ipod docing bay connection thing and 2GB ipod nano. Thats the RX-V 659

And they had a 6.1 RX-V559 same deal with ipod stuff but $799, or $570 without.

Now, these prices I can live with, not totaly sure if I'm gonna splurge for the ipod, but I'm thinking I should at least get a newer model that if I get an ipod later I can hook it up and still have the through the tv control display and all that stuff.

The other thing I'm not sure of is if I should spend the extra $100 for the 7.1 reciever. Right now, I have a set of RF-15's an RC-25, and plan on getting some rear surrounds soon and not quite sure on wich sub to go with the system. And for now, just finishing off my 5.1 setup would be great, 7.1, well, I'm sure it sounds better, but I've heard some pretty impressive 5.1 setups, and not sure I'd notice a difference. And do any movies even have 7.1? I know I've only seen a few that have 6.1, and only one that comes to mind is Gladiator.

And I do like the option of having a seperate set of speakers hooked up in another room running off the same amp for music. I can see eventualy getting some nice outdoor speakers hooked up this way, just two of them for stereo sound is all that is needed I think. Is this what others on here have done?

Is this doable with the 6.1 reciever? Salesman said it is, but will only draw half the power, where as the 7.1 would run each channell at full power. Is this right?

I'm planning on doing some more shopping around, and havn't even started to haggle the price down, the store I was at, I've got them to drop the price quite a bit on other items I've bought in the past.

So any more suggestions or answers to my questions would be greatly appreciated again.

[Jay481985]

12 foot 1/8 ministereo jack (headphone jack) to two 1/4 rca plugs (goes into the reciever) cost around 15 dollars from partsexpress.com It is cheaper than any so called ipod dock. Although it may not have the cool in tv screen and charging etc.....

[Kris B Krunch]

yeah, but that $229 extra includes the dock and the ipod nano, so not a bad deal for the money, and aparently you can sit back and use the remote control to control the ipod as well, wich, seems to be worth a little bit extra money. Is still havn't decided if I'll even go with the ipod, but if i do, seems like a easy way to conect and itereact with it.

And right now the 2gb ipod nano is listed for $219, so $20 for the docking thing seems worthwile

[colterphoto1]

But who on earth wants to listen to cruddy MP3 sound source through their beautiful HIFI system? That's just disgusting.... Unless maybe you use a very high quality compression scheme I think it would be unlistenable.

M