DEAD SUB - Klipsch=JUNK

[BIGKEL]

I can only hope this post will deter comsumers from purchasing KLIPSCH products.

I purchased the GMX A 2.1 system for my computer some time ago. I have recently been having trouble with the system as an increasing amount of static is generated when you turn the volume up. I have since been disappointed with this system as the subwoofer no longer functions. I have checked all connections and the fuse on the unit itself yet the sub continues to not produce any sound. The satellites operate through the sub module but there is no bass. In a search for possible solutions it has been discovered that this is a reoccurring problem with the PROMEDIA line of subwoofers from KLIPSCH. There are numerous complaints including those in this forum. KLIPCH refuses to acknowledge that there is a problem with their system and only offer a repair service for $60 plus shipping. It is evident that there is a design flaw and that problems like this are not rare. How comfortable do the consumers feel about KLIPSCH trying to extort more money out of you to fix a problem that they know about?

[Amy]

Hello,

I'm sorry to hear of the problems you are experiencing. However, to say there is a design flaw and a known problem with this system is 100% false. We rarely get complaints associated with the GMX products, and return rates are extremely low--lower than industry averages. To make any comparisons with other ProMedia products would be a mistake as well, as these are made from completely different components and have a completely different design.

If you search this section of the forum back one year, you will notice perhaps 5 or 6 complaints concerning the GMX A2.1, some of which could be problems with the soundcard or bad connections--the threads themselves are inconclusive as to the cause of the problems. Couple this with thousands upon thousands of units sold in the past year, and you can see there is no basis for your accusations.

Have you checked the DIN plug for any bent pins? That is the most common reason a channel or the subwoofer would cease to function. If you do not plug the DIN plug exactly straight, this could be the result.

A scratchy volume pod may be the cause of usage over time, dirty pot, or bad connections. A replacement controller can be purchased in our online store for $21.84, and can be returned for a full refund if it does not fix the problem.

Please let me know if you have additional questions or concerns.

Thanks!

[m00n]

I can only hope this post will deter comsumers from purchasing KLIPSCH products.

I purchased the GMX A 2.1 system for my computer some time ago. I have recently been having trouble with the system as an increasing amount of static is generated when you turn the volume up. I have since been disappointed with this system as the subwoofer no longer functions. I have checked all connections and the fuse on the unit itself yet the sub continues to not produce any sound. The satellites operate through the sub module but there is no bass. In a search for possible solutions it has been discovered that this is a reoccurring problem with the PROMEDIA line of subwoofers from KLIPSCH. There are numerous complaints including those in this forum. KLIPCH refuses to acknowledge that there is a problem with their system and only offer a repair service for $60 plus shipping. It is evident that there is a design flaw and that problems like this are not rare. How comfortable do the consumers feel about KLIPSCH trying to extort more money out of you to fix a problem that they know about?

BIGKEL

How long have you had it? You said for some time, but how long in some time? If it worked fine then started having issues, perhaps it's possible you have simply abused the product? I've had my pro medias for some 5 years now and they are still sound as good today as they did the day I got them out of the box.

Having issues with a product and being irritated is understandable, but going to a company's website joining their forum just to bash their products is not going to win you any respect or any sympothy for help from any company or the people who visit this site.

[mbeach]

Until this afternoon, I had forgetten about the GMX 5.1 sub and pod that had been boxed and stored in my basement for a year.

I was quite excited to purchase this product a year and a half ago, but very dissapointed when it failed to provide satisfaction. It was noisy, and the "pod" was more of a distraction than a level control (please, we like knobs -ditch the cheap buttons). After the sub failed -less than 3 months after purchase- I was directed to send the sub and pod back to Klipsch. The return process was very efficient, as I received an RA # within 24 hours of my complaint. Unfortunately, I had just accepted a job 4500 miles away and was reluctant to send anything out. So, the box just sat... and was moved... and sat... I had long since written it off -I have been using the satellites though, they're o.k.

Anyways, today, one of our Metrology Techs (I work as an electronics tech in a nice shop) brought in his personal GMX 2.1 sub that had failed -wondering if we could get it running again. It had dropped a channel. So, after confirming the failure I opened it up -and was horrified.

This is the CHEAPEST built amplifier that I have ever seen this side of some generic distributed sound systems. The speaker is good quality, the box is outstanding, the power supply side (the bottom half, around the transformer) is pretty well built. Decent solder joints, quality wire, a few moderate quality components. It looks as if it was assembled with some care. HOWEVER, the amplifier side looks like it was put together by a 7th grader with a home electronics kit.

Hot glue and sticky foam does NOT belong in a quality product. Screws should be held with LocTite -not this drizzled goop. Hot glue on the PCB (holding the leads from the Xformer) is a dead giveaway. The heatsinks aren't purpose built (not that this would be expected, but a good design would allow for use of an off the shelf item) -they have been "milled" to fit the space and screws available. They aren't mounted with any heat sink paste, and neither are the IC amplifiers. They are clamped in with some cheap piece of steel. Heck, you can't even fully pull out the amp/power section without clipping the speaker leads. C'mon people -give us a plug. A well-designed product is also repairable, and, for the most part, this is not.

A little bit of work and I can get the 2.1 unit running. It needs a new IC amp (the old one exploded -literally). This was likely caused by shorting of the speaker leads -not Klipsch's fault. The failure wasn't a big deal, but I was appalled at the quality of construction, especially after learning that this unit had been been factory repaired for a power problem -there were 3 IC mounting screws missing!

My 5.1 unit is going to be a different story -there is some sign of overheating, but nothing obvious like in the 2.1 amp. Considering that this unit was never run at more than 3/10ths, I'm still dissapointed by the signs of smoke. My biggest problem was noise -likely attributed to poor filtering from the generic capacitors, but possibly a bum transformer. If it's the transformer, this unit is toast.

I'm also going to dig into the pod (level controller) and see what's going on in there. I suspect that it's built better than the amp, but who knows?

All in all, it's been a dissapointing affair. I scored the GMX 5.1 system at MicroCenter for $189, so I wasn't really burned. Maybe I should've spent the extra money and bought the Ultras... or may I should have looked elsewhere.

It's my belief that Klipsch is seriously tarnishing its image by putting the name on such an inferior product. I shouldn't have to wonder what's inside the case when I look at their products -but now, I'll be forever cautious.

[Amy]

I appreciate your feedback. However, you must understand the price-point category for this system. The higher the price point, the higher quality the components. We strive for "best in class" products, which means exactly what it says. If you opened ANY product in the same class as the GMX A2.1, you would find similar, if not inferior, components. If you want higher quality, you pay for it! Isn't that true with everything?

Again, the GMX A2.1 has been a VERY strong performer for us. That's not to say there aren't problems occassionally, that is the case with all electronics, but it's certainly nothing that would justify saying that "Klipsch has a known problem and won't fix it." I believe that would be considered slander, actually.

[mbeach]

I hope that you don't consider my post as slanderous -my comments were simply those of a person who deals with similar types of equipment (and failures) on a daily basis.

In fact, I have little but praise for a company who is willing to host a forum where it seems that users rarely do more than bash their products failures. It shows a lot of commitment and courage on Klipsch's part.

I could gut this unit and replace all of the components that I deem "inferior" -I still might, just for fun. However, this particular sub/amp/crossover/power supply just suffers from poor design. The hard components look to be practically hand fitted -each unit differing from the next. This is neither confidence inspiring or cost effective. It appears that the heat sinks were salvaged from something else, and then (heavily) modified to work in this application. In fact, the heat sinks on my 6 channel unit are the exact same ones on my tech's 3 channel unit. Hot semiconductors are unhappy semiconductors. Heat is what kills these amplifiers -causing users to lose channels. Mount everything correctly and cool it efficiently and this problem will go away.

So, I'm about to put a 'scope on the output of my pod (pre-amp/level control) and see if it's the source of the dreaded hiss. Maybe I'll find something else worth noting.

[Amy]

I hope that you don't consider my post as slanderous ...

No, no, no, not at all! I was referring to the initial post (and some others found on this board). Sorry I didn't make that clear.

I'm very curious, where was that unit purchased, and do you have the serial number?

[mbeach]

I bought the unit at MicroCenter in Columbus Ohio @March 05. I don't have a serial number, but the PCB is dated 23 December 2002.

I've called in smarter reinforcements (my lead tech) to look it over. It appears that the hiss is the result of the gain being cranked up on both the pre-amplifiers (in the pod) and the amps in the subwoofer cabinet. We may just turn down the gain (by component replacement) on one or both of those amplifiers. I will also be powering the pod with a separate power supply (wall-mounted transformer). I think that this will eliminate some of the power transformer noise from being introduced into the pod, causing a noisy loop.

As for the 2.1 amp, a quick replacement of the burnt amp put it back on the road. It appears to be working fine. The failure was not design related.

As an aside, my lead tech noted that the design of the preamplifier section in the pod was very good/very expensive.

[mbeach]

I have overhauled the subwoofer enclosure:

Replaced speaker leads with quality wire, including a plug to allow for easy removal.

Remounted amplifiers to aluminum chassis. Used silicone paste for heat dissipation and mica insulators. Got rid of that nasty silicon pad. Also remounted the factory heatsinks with the correct amount of thermal paste (one had too much, one had none).

Removed much of the hot glue, which was overdone. This caused a few of the resistors to run hot, as well as the 5v regulator -which actually had 'cooked' the glue that was choking it.

I twisted up the leads to and from the transformer, hoping to reduce some 60Hz noise -which wasn't really a problem anyways. It looks cooler now though.

I even had time to pop a dent out of the grill -tip for your engineers: If it's to be located at ankle height, expect it to get kicked. Put a sturdier grill on your subs.

So now, with a clean signal (analog, provided by that spare 2.1 pod I had), the system sounds fantastic. I was going to knock down the gain of the system amps (2030As, running at @22) to quiet things down a bit, but I've decided to leave it. The problem (the Hiss) is not in the black box...

So... on to the pod -or UFO as we've taken to calling it here.

Good design, apparently -but the gain on the pre-amps is cranked WAY up. This thing amplifies your breathing if you're too close to the board. I have datasheets for the amps, and may turn their sensitivity down, if I can find some SM resistors that are small enough...

While I was in there I used some heatshrink to isolate the LEDs -I was annoyed by the fact that nearby lights 'bled' into each other.

What are the odds of scoring a set of schematics for the UFO? I'm convinced that there's a power problem (the voltage regulator is only passing 3.5v, and it runs HOT), as well as some input sensitivity issues. It could be as simple as a cracked solder, courtesy of some hokey board mounting. The "tap test" does produce some variations in output.

I also have reason to believe that this unit was a refurb. I actually found masking tape holding one of the buttons in place. If I can't get the UFO flying, I may opt for a simple 2ch input. It sounds great without the noise...

EDIT: I should mention, that the simple fact that I am working on this is a credit to Klipsch. Anything else would've headed to the dumpster a long time ago. I believe that this is a product that is worth fixing.

[macrick]

Hi all, Im living in Singapore , I would say that GMX A 2.1 is the 1st and last product I will buy from Klipsch. I rma the sub the day before and today, both sub cease to function instantly. Btw, the replacemant subs are BRAND NEW. it cost me not only money for the cab fare and the time wasted making trips down to the local distributor. I will post a RMA form to support my claim. I believe a picture says a thousand words.

Hi mod, you said the return rates are low, the you have some form of statistic to show us? This product really aimnt worth my money and cause me great deal of despair. Simple and Period.

To mbeach, dont waste yr time fixing the damn sub, it belongs to the recycling plant. Time is Life and Life is precious

[mbeach]

The best part of the sub is the box -I'll admit to that. But hey, for $189US, what can you expect (for the 5.1 system)?

I fix things for a living, so this is a minor distraction. In my industry (oil and gas), we spend a fair amount of time repairing items that are outdated or junk to begin with. I like to call it "shining turds."

So, I have decided to make this turd shine.

[Bohemian_Rhapsody]

very impressive indeed mbeach, i wish i knew electronics stuff better, i would've done quite a lot of experiments like yours... enjoy Klipsch

[Macho Nacho]

Whoa

[pulmonq2]

I have a ProMedia 5.1, and it's a fact that there was a design flaw in the amplifier, which caused it to stop working after approx. 8 months. I had this happen twice (sent sub in for replacement under warranty) and after the second time, they said the flaw had been addressed. They had upgraded me to the Ultra, and the sub has worked fine for a few years since. However, I'm currently experiencing an issue whereby the sub again doesn't work. I decided to open the back up and take a look. One of the sub's wires came loose. I put it back, and the sub worked. This happened again, however, and after the third time, the subs still wouldn't receive power after the connection was re-established. Satellites power fine, but the circuit module for the sub doesn't transfer any power to the lead outs to the subs. There is a small amount of current going into the circuit module, but it seems to die somewhere on that board. Any ideas? Is the amp for the sub injured?

Paul

[mbeach]

If one of the leads for your subwoofer touched ground, the amplifier would have blown. IIRC, it only has three leads and costs @$2, so it's an easy fix. While you're in there, solder on the speaker leads so they don't come off again.

I almost forgot about this thread. I fixed the sub/amplifier, but gave up on the UFO.

[sterling]

i am amazed that there are so many people that are disappointed with Klipsch products. i used to work for a very reputable home and car A\V chain and Klipsch was one of our most successful products at there price-point; from these little 2.1s to the c5s.these mini satellite setups performed much better than the Bose and all the others that we put them up against; and at the price they were... thats why i purchased them about 3 years ago. they still sound great, true the volume knob gives me bit of static while being turned up and down (wear and tear, things wear out with friction)but really i am surprised that they've done so well for so long and i have definitely abused this product and am very surprised that i haven't blown them yet. now im not an electrician by any means but i purchased this system because it sounded the best compared to every other system around $200, sorry guys specs are great but what it really comes down to is the end product and price. when i get back from Iraq I'm going to brush up on there products and get a full home theater using them.at there price point i believe there isn't a better product. the only problem that I've had is that the sub woofer enclosure couldn't hold up to the guys that threw my bags on the airplane causing the back end to break out. the sub still works great though it isn't hooked up to prevent damage from incorrect back pressure. but thats all i need, a piece of wood that goes around the amplifier and i wouldn't be surprised if they give me another 3 years of beautiful sound.

p.s. is there a way that i can order the back peice of mdf, and is there a monster cable kit for this system that i can purchase? will you ship to FPO\APO addresses? thanks

sterling