Coytee Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 On a very simplistic level... Take a single player, guitar guy... He has a wire going to his guitar and another to his mic. These wires go? (and this is my question?) Do the wires go to HIS little amplifier and to HIS monitor? Is the sound THEN picked up by microphone at HIS speaker to re-amplify it out to the larger crowd? Or, do the wires go from his guitar and mic, into a "Y" splitter which is THEN fed back into his monitors and the other leg goes to the main output? I've seen microphones infront of speakers while the speakers are on stage so that infers to me the prior scenario... Just what IS the signal path from say, guitar pick, to the performers ear, AS WELL, as the ear of an audience member? [8-)] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch Employees Trey Cannon Posted November 14, 2006 Klipsch Employees Share Posted November 14, 2006 Here you go... ax to amp from amp (via mic in front or DI box in back) to mixer ((DI box is a converter from un-balanced to balanced connection)) from Vocal Mic to mixer Mixer takes all inputs and "mixes them together" and sends them back to amps Most of the time 1 amp is for the mains / front of house and the other is for the monitors on stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch Employees Trey Cannon Posted November 14, 2006 Klipsch Employees Share Posted November 14, 2006 http://www.prosoundweb.com/install/commentary/kc/ev/pabible/pab_01_p1whole.shtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch Employees Trey Cannon Posted November 14, 2006 Klipsch Employees Share Posted November 14, 2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mas Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 Trey, May I also add that it is also common practice to run an additional line from a mic for the guitar players amp in the example via the 'snake' to the mixer, where the signal from the DI is mixed with the mic'ed signal. While this is not normally done in a small 'combo' setup, it is much more common (the norm) in larger SR productions and in the studio for recording. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch Employees Trey Cannon Posted November 14, 2006 Klipsch Employees Share Posted November 14, 2006 very true Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted November 15, 2006 Author Share Posted November 15, 2006 Ok, so without you butchering me for my bad use of terms... then it's fair for me to look at it as a "Y" adapter ? Meaning, the sound from all, goes to a single place (mixer) and then is split FROM the mixer back to the performer with the other leg, going to the audience. Why is there at times, a microphone in front of an on stage speaker that might be BEHIND the performers? (aren't the only monitors in front of them?) I can't specifically say where I've seen that but I know I have. I've never understood what was going on there. I am now presuming it doesn't have anything to do with my original question? (meaning, THAT location (mic in front of little speaker) isn't the pickup point for the sound to the crowd) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch Employees Trey Cannon Posted November 15, 2006 Klipsch Employees Share Posted November 15, 2006 http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/pages/Guitars%20elec.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 The mixer is not a Y-Adapter by any means....think of it as a routing and mixing device. You can send the signal of any input to any output. You also have the option of sending multiple inputs to any of the same outputs which is where the and "mix- and matching" takes place. Every channel behaves independant of each other as well as every output behaves independant of each other. They call it "live sound reinforcement" because the purpose of the sound system is to 'reinforce' the sound of the band. Even a huge Marshall stack or two isn't going to properly fill the acoustical space in even a small venue - it may have the right timbre, but it doesn't have the necessary dispersion pattern (unlike your Jubilees that have a very flat coverage pattern). So along comes the sound guy to reinforce the sound of the musician by capturing the sound on stage right in front of the amp (where it sounds the best) and then spreading it to the rest of the venue. Rarely (I wanna say never but there's always exceptions) do you ever run the mic'ed guitar amp channel into the monitors on stage - 99% of the time his guitar amp is going to be too loud and the last thing you want to do is introduce comb-filtering, which will only reduce clarity and make it seem not as loud (causing him to turn up even louder....). If he needs to hear more guitar, then tell him to turn up [] (scariest thing ever - so usually you try to turn everything down in his monitor to achieve the same effect before telling him to turn up). Mic'ing the singer however is a different story...no way in heck his voice is going to carry even into the front row, let alone him being able to hear himself. The vocals are usually the loudest thing in all the monitors since that's where the focus of most music tends to reside. Because the sound board can mix and match it's outputs independant of the other channels, we can send the vocals to the monitors without sending the guitars to the monitors. However, both the vocal and the guitar are going to be sent to the "FOH" (Front Of House - the main speakers for the big sound system). The relative volume of the vocal and guitar are going to be fully adjustable without affecting the volume in the monitors (prefade). Or if you'd like, you can have the monitors change with the changes in the FOH (postfade). If you want to be a bit more crazy you can assign whatever channels you want to a subgroup where you can adjust the volume of all those channels at once in the FOH (for instance you want to turn down the 8 channels of drum mics all at once). Or you can be a bit crazier and use VCA's to control the volume in the monitors with the subgroup faders. Or my favorite setup....you can run a series of choir mics into a subgroup with a parametric EQ on the insert that splits its output between the subgroup return and an effects unit, while running a VCA through another aux send feeding another seperate effects unit. Return both effects racks to their own channels on the board, feed their output into another subgroup with another parametric EQ on the insert, and then it all gets mixed back into the FOH for a huge feedback free choir. [][H] But we're not done yet...the choir and choir effects subgroups are mixed into a matrix that gets sent to another rack of processing, EQ, and then an amp that powers another mains on the sides and back of the auditorium - all to add just a touch of fullness to the sound. I don't think you can do all that with a "Y-adapter" cable [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 I think he's using y-adapter in place of DI box. The DI box is a box in stage that accepts the guitar's 1/4" plug, has output in 1/4" to go directly to the onstage guitar amp. Also has XLR plug for DIRECT input into the mixer. I'd say here that this direct/mic'd approach is used more with bass guitar and keyboard instruments. WIth a guitar, there are many effects boxes, tubes in amps, and even the specific speaker cones that contribute to the 'sound' of the guitar. So this sound from the on stage amp is frequently mic'd and sent to the mixer board. Especially for bass guitar, a blend of the direct signal from the bass and a mic'd signal gives some 'thickening ' of the sound, and is much richer than either direct or the sound coming from the stage amp. As bands get better, they learn to rely more on the monitor mixer's abilities to provide each musician with his own custom mix through the onstage monitor system and rely's less on mountains of amps and speakers onstage to be heard. The guy mixing the monitors becomes an integral part of the band at that point. M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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