brennyE Posted December 31, 2006 Author Share Posted December 31, 2006 yep I did have the 30hz filter active, but......come to think of it, there was ALOT of excursion happinin before it blew (for rated 14mm Xmax anyway) I never even thought of that, but it makes sense non the less. That audio pipe amplifier sounds pretty damn beefy! but I was always under the impresion that audio pipe was a car audio company? maybe I am wrong? I have a thing now about not trusting car audio specs now [A] And nope he is still trying to get a refund!!! he has even gone to the place were I got my behringer amp, and has got the owner of the shop (very knowledgeable guy, been in PA all his life, hates car audio.) To help him come up with ways to get a refund.........I say it's never going to happen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkside Posted December 31, 2006 Share Posted December 31, 2006 Yeah, I thought they were a car audio company too, but lo and behold, I found these. I'm assuming they're pretty old too considering they have analog guages and are priced amazingly low considering their output. The APA 5500 puts out 1050 watts per channel, two channels at 2 ohms and 2100 watts into 4 ohms bridged for less than 400 bucks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brennyE Posted December 31, 2006 Author Share Posted December 31, 2006 Just had a look at the Audio pipe APA2500 and it looks like a pretty serious amp! more power into 8ohms (in bridged) than the behringer but less power into 4ohms.....the differences I see between it and the behringer seem to be -different power outputs (depending on the impedance load).....do you plan to run your sub as 8ohms......can you? -the audio pipe doesnt have a choice for parallel inputs (which is nothing really at all...you can just use a splitter cable) -the audio pipe has a sensitivity switch...which I am guessing can be used to compensate for low input signals? -the audio pipe costs more than the behringer by a fair bit! If you got the audio pipe would you buy second hand off Ebay or such? there is one going on Ebay for $275 which is in your budget.....but when not second hand they cost quite a bit. I have always seemed to think that Audio Pipe was a car audio company (saw them in a car audio magazine I think) and never even knew that they did PA! All-in-all that audio pipe amplifier looks to be a pretty good performer by the stats, and if you can get it for a good price, I say do it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkside Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 I know where to get one for about $200 (american) but I don't know what shipping is. I'm looking at using it with a Kicker Solo-baric S12L7 (one of the old ones) which is dual 4 ohm, 750 watts RMS. At the same time, its a fairly efficient woofer so I could use a small Legion amp that will put 200 watts into 8 ohms for about a hundred bucks.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brennyE Posted January 2, 2007 Author Share Posted January 2, 2007 Is this for a home audio subwoofer as I presumed? or are you now talking about your car? because if you like nice deep bass you will most likely be disappointed with a car audio subwoofer in a room.....I wont lecture on because you may already know this but car subwoofers are designed with a car cabins gain in mind which if I have my facts right adds ALOT to the deep bass portion (under around 30hz I believe you start to get alot of gain) so with this design in mind most of car audio subwoofers are designed not to be flat past this point, becase the cars cabin will fill in for it. when I moved from my RW-12 to the subwoofer I made using the 15" FUSION subwoofer driver (car audio) I never thought that there was so much music information under 30hz! In my small room even, it felt like I had lost that powerful bass feeling (but that was compensated by pure SPL!) even the high excursion subwoofers in car audio rarely are designed to do to much under 30hz (compared to home audio standards anyways) Being that the kicker subwoofer is an efficient woofer (I havent looked at the stats yet) It also makes me think that it would be very deep bass shy. As a very loosely based rule (defenatly doesn't apply to everything....then again not much does in audio!) high sensitivity means low (or fairly low) excursion limits, which is needed to play deep. Ohhhh If I was in the sweet, oh so sweet USA I would be to busy looking at SVS, HSU, Adire (we actually have em' here in Australia!woohoo!), Ascendant Audio, Velodyne, and last but not least the might TC SOUNDS! (good god I love the specs on those subs!) For 200 American why not have a look at the TC-1000 12"? looks pretty good to me! lol I hope you were talking about using the car audio subwoofer at home or else I have just gone on and on for no reason and will now look like an idiot [H][Y][] Even after all that rambling and suggesting a different subwoofer, Im sure you would be happy with that Kicker subwoofer (the solobarick ones are the square shaped ones yeh?) as I probably would be too. But...............you can always, always get better value for money. any time you find something that looks like its the best value for money, there is always something always out there that beats it in performance for less moolah.......thats the whole fun [:^)] I think I shall go have a proper look at the kicker sub now lol! Peace out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brennyE Posted January 2, 2007 Author Share Posted January 2, 2007 Hmmm just had a look on the Kicker homepage (and various other sites that were useless) and It doesnt show any of the TS parametres for the subwoofer except for impedence and power handling.......Makes it a bit hard to model a good box or get an idea of the performance. I found a photo of the rear end of the driver and the magnet structure is a bit on the small side, but being a square there is more surface area...... Hey Doc Who! (when in doubt ask the doc [A]) do you know any downsides for having a subwoofers cone shaped as a square? (I have always wondered this since I saw the solobarics a long time ago) I would be thinking there must be a few, or else all the companies would be doing it. Ohhh well it's like all the never ending list of downsides for the famous car audios 6inch by 9inch speaker cone......so many reasons against them but everyone still buys em! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 The idea behind a quare is that it provides more surface area for usable baffle space. A 15" driver has a 177 square inch surface area whereas a 15x15 square has a 225 square inch surface area. Basically, the circular driver has roughly 80% the same surface area. I think that comes to about a 1dB difference? However, the Sd in the equation programs is the effective surface area - not the true physical surface area. The square's surface area is going to be more lossy because air is going to rush off the sides of the cone more easily. Ultimately, it's going to be a function of the ratio between the surface area and circumference of the cone - a circle has the most area per circumference so it is going to be the most efficient. Then couple that with the difficulties involved with making the surround go around the corners of the square...I would think it very difficult to ensure linear behavior, not to mention harder to keep the cone centered perfectly. Anyways, them's just my thoughts - I really don't know the reasons a real engineer would provide. But I'm with you - if square was better, then I think a lot of pro sound companies would be using it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 The idea behind a quare is that it provides more surface area for usable baffle space. A 15" driver has a 177 square inch surface area whereas a 15x15 square has a 225 square inch surface area. Basically, the circular driver has roughly 80% the same surface area. I think that comes to about a 1dB difference? However, the Sd in the equation programs is the effective surface area - not the true physical surface area. The square's surface area is going to be more lossy because air is going to rush off the sides of the cone more easily. Ultimately, it's going to be a function of the ratio between the surface area and circumference of the cone - a circle has the most area per circumference so it is going to be the most efficient. Then couple that with the difficulties involved with making the surround go around the corners of the square...I would think it very difficult to ensure linear behavior, not to mention harder to keep the cone centered perfectly. Anyways, them's just my thoughts - I really don't know the reasons a real engineer would provide. But I'm with you - if square was better, then I think a lot of pro sound companies would be using it... This correct. Square woofers are curiosities and none of these square woofers has true high excursion as the sourround around the "corners" will not behave in a linear fashion as the round sourround. And the gain in dB as pointed is so minute it is a near worthless gain,considering the negative aspects.A round cone(piston)the forces are disributed evenly,any shape departing a perfect circle the forces will change,a negative. Kicker's upscale woofers pale in comparison to the best TC Sounds and JL Audio,the former two displace more air and provide better sound quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkside Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 Sorry for such a long time on the responses, I've been staying offthe PC lately (weather's been beautiful). I realize all the drawbacksof Kicker subs, room/cabin gain, etc. etc., but the comp 12 I got mybrother, even in a large room (where I tested it before it got in thecar) was awesome. Of course, the other thing here is looks (trust me, Iam not fond of critical listening and I never do so) and price. Ireally do like the look of the old L7 (the titanium one) over the lookof anything else. Plus this whole deal is just for "kicks" (haha badjoke) now that I have spending money... I also have settled on kicker(not permanently though) because the Comp 12 also proved very goodsounding in a tiny box (1 1/4 cu ft) and did very well with music likeSublime and Three 6 Mafia, both very bass heavy (and in a large room onabout 80 watts maybe). I dunno, if I decide on something else, it maybe soon. I just can't get Kicker off the brain since that Comp was only60 bucks. I actually feel its good.......too good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 round is all for standing out but is worse off then any circular. Any gain in surface area is lost in linear motion as a circle, the distance to the surround is constant while the square, the edges are going to be further away. But there is one cool thing I did see with the kickers once, I saw a guy with a bmw ski pass through the rear seat install that so the woofer was actually in the cabinent without taking space away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brennyE Posted January 2, 2007 Author Share Posted January 2, 2007 that's probably be fine them (especially because you have already demoed one) if you dont want it for accuracy....... sometimes when you get into one of those boom, boom, boom moods you really dont care about any form of SQ, I for one get into these moods sometimes but only for 1 or 2 minutes as I just cant have music up that loud without worrying (the house we live in at the moment has very close by neighbors) The Ear: Your constant talking about JL audio has intrigued me[] I think I might go have a look at some of their subwoofers more carefully now, as I am currently trying to figure out what I am going to use in my first car's audio system (just sanded it down today, am going to paint it tomorrow) as it has a nice sized boot......I want deep loud bass, and it sounds to me that JL subs have alot of excursion to offer (I watched a vid of the W7....very impressive, probably more so in real life) The Doc: I knew you would shoot through [H]! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsched with Yamahas Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 Those 10" solo-barics kicked my butt more than once during SPL comps, and the DD 35 and 95 series are no slouches either. Yes, I dabbled w/this system in SPL one year. Long story, but basically the system was built to compete in both SQ and SP formats. (7) consecutive BEST OF THE BEST OF SHOWS (best of both sq and sp) However, today I am nowhere near loud enough! The bar gets raised every year it seems, and now I have heard "unofficially" that someone had a setup and hit 182db w/ONE sub. Reason it wasn't legitimate, they couldn't get the sensor to stick to the window (even w/super glue) (lol.....now that's loud) FYI....MANY f-bodies run w/JL subs in sub-thump/stealth boxes. Very popular, but those Mclass Memphis subs aren't bad either and they now make an 8" (schwee)! Now if I can only remember those CV speakers I used to run: V series for the DJ system, and the R312 bookshelf I think! That was good equipment! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkside Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 Oooooh. O.o! Those Tc-1000 8s looks nice, but they're sooo expensive! But 25mm xmax on a driver that small, man, I thought the Assassin 8 was pretty beastly....seems good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brennyE Posted January 4, 2007 Author Share Posted January 4, 2007 yeh all the TC drivers have awsome excursion limits......It would be pretty funny to see a 8inch driver perform a full 2inch P-P sweep! I am also starting to seriously consider using JL audio for bass in my new first car also (namely the W6 serious....my supermarket wages prevent me from affording the W7 series) they look like they are very well built.......and as luck would have it adire audio hasnt replied to any of my three emails! how am I supposed to buy from them if I dont know the prices?!?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 talk to kyle from acoustic-visions.com ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkside Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 Yeah, i was this close ( |-| ) to getting a W6v2 for my brother's mustang, but my dad axed for the price and we ended up with the Kicker. I've auditioned one though, at low levels, and it had excelent SQ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brennyE Posted January 4, 2007 Author Share Posted January 4, 2007 yeh I have got a kenwood headunit on layby for my car (I dont car much for expensive bling-bling headunits) and am going to get response kevlar pulp 6" splits, response four channel amp, response subwoofer amp, and for the subwoofer system either the JL audio W6 12", Adire audio brahma (15") or I have been thinking about getting 2 carbon fibre response 12" subs (my mate has two of the 10's in his car in a ported enclosure.....these things crank) All the things on the list above will probably be different tomorrow [:S] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkside Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 All the things on the list above will probably be different tomorrow ROFL, isn't that always the case with audio? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brennyE Posted January 6, 2007 Author Share Posted January 6, 2007 lol yep.....especially with me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkside Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 I forgot to mention, you might want to look into products from Earthquake Sound if they're available to you. I have a Supernova MKIV which is powered with a Tremor subwoofer (not the Tremor-X) and a SLAPS passive and sound quality is extremely good. It is very similar to a Kompressor tube....just thought I'd mention that.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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