Double bass bin La Scala

[Coytee]

You girls be nice when you're on the phone.

[]

[DrWho]

Yes mother []

[mas]

[|-)]

[colterphoto1]

"Both 8 ohm speakers... so a 4 ohm load.

The manual at Sunfire shows ideally not less than 2 ohm load is

acceptable. 4 ohms is just fine."

8 ohms is an average which consists of a 3.8 ohm k-33, an 11 ohm k-55, and a 6.8 ohm K-77.

If you Y connect the woofers, your impedance for the LF section drops down to 1.9 ohms.

1.9 ohms is a real test of courage for an SS amp. Doulbe check your amps recomendations. What does time limited mean?

"800 watts RMS per channel into two ohms time- limited basis "

If you damage your amp, send the bill to Dr Who.

If you want to run ~2 ohm or lower loads, simply get a Crown K1 or K2 series or XTi series amp. They eat 2 ohms for breakfast.

That is precisely one of their strengths!

Heck,

or go with a Crown Macro-Tech amp. I have literally watched one used to

weld in a demonstration (and inadvertently done it as well on another

occasion!) and they don't even shut down! Of course in a dead short

they can draw 30 amps, so you might want to re-wire your circuit for such!

And if these amps can't address your power needs, you need to find another hobby.

Of

course, an active crossover with signal delay would actually address

this issue much better and more completely as well...but why do the job

right when you can find another use for a transformer?

And I

know I shouldn't ask this, but aside from the fact that this can be

done, WHY does anyone want to do this for a small listening room?

Yup, that's me alrighty. Got a Crown Macro-Tech 1200 for my dual LSI bass bins.

Going to start a thread on the MTM's. Mine aren't working worth a hoot.

[Modified-Tractrix]

I ran two pairs with one stacked on top of another but with both bottom and top units on their sides, horns on the inside, hooked in parallel. Of couse this was when I thought the woofers were 8 ohm. My DH-500 pushed the load with no problems. I also tried the Bose approach and set one facing back and the other front, didn't sound so good.

Nothing wrong with the autoformer Speakerfritz suggests, damping factor changes have not seemed to change the sound of my lascalas much, I forget the math but I think any series inductor pretty much caps the damping factor at around twenty.

[IndyKlipschFan]

Also, I agree that implementing proper subwoofage is absolutely vital with the lascala, but that also costs money....THE KLIPSCH THX SUBS /KA 1000 amp combo works well here.. hahahahah stacking the bass bins is a free experiment. You claim that it shouldn't sound better, but there are many that claim it does. Yea sure, it might be placebo....or perhaps just maybe, the possible issues to which you refer are of a very small magnitude. (and just to stress the point, I'm talking about doubled up bass bins, not doubled up HF/MF packs). So if I'm right, which I always am because I'm young and cocky, then perhaps you're misinterpreting the results of others?

Yes it works... Even with BOTH tops just invert them...

Truth be told, in my application, the La Scala bass bins are still on the floor then on top of one of them is a milk carton, on top of that is a vertical Cornwall THEN on top of the Cornwall are the two split La Scala tops..... (Top one is flipped upside down) It STILL sounds great, my amp seems cool to warm to the touch, and no issues at all... SOUNDS great and you can def feel a plane fly over you have that Doppler effect as it goes overhead on the screen.... hmmm maybe I just lucked into a great situation?

Older, trying to be humble, in light of real life experience, to the contrary of you can't do that nay sayers on here.....

Roger!!!

[DrWho]

lol Roger, you're outta control

FWIW, I think you need more subwoofage []

[NightVtwin]

Wow thanks for all the input from ever one! I have a great deal to consider and will post pictures as the project unfolds, which will undoubtedly take some time.

There were some question as to what I was trying to accomplish. I like the very tight bass of the La Scala, but miss the low octave of my previous khorns. I do believe the stacked La Scala provides a moderate improvement of the bass. Stacking La Scala's certainly doesn't make a cornerhorn, but the lowest notes are perceptibly better - *to me* - then a single cabinet. I'm not a big fan of sub woofers but a sub woofer will be used for movies and such so I need to research and find a practical candidate. Every time I walk into an audio store it seems I'm plastered to the wall with the latest and greatest single note sub woofer and satellite bookshelf mid tweeter system.

The room will be used for movies and party's, for both young and old alike. I like everything from Pink Floyd to Caren Carpenter to Glen Miller to the Eagles. Their may even be some Tchaikovsky now and then. What I don't like, and maybe it's just me, the la Scala's sound very peaky at the resonant frequency of the cabinet. I do believe a good stiffening up is in order.

I currently have them hooked up to my Denon 7.1 system, using A & B outputs. I have listened to the A speakers, started the music over and listened to the B speakers, then used the same piece again with both A & B. My best test equipment is my ears, and they tell me it sounds best, most live, with all four. Maybe not a lot, but enough to make the project worthwhile. And after listening to my La Scala's stacked in the living room, I'm thoroughly convinced giving some altitude to the mid & high horns makes a huge difference in sound stage and presence..

Also, the speakers will likely be used for sound reinforcement in a gymnasium size building. Poor acoustics, their I think loud is all that matters.

At Home, the speakers will be used in a moderate sized room, a fat U shaped room with the main part, - the bottom of the U, 27' long by 17' wide, and the tops 10' x 7' and 9' x 7' the speakers will be placed at one end of the bottom of the U with the listening area about 17' feet away.

I will refinish them so they can be used in a variety of configurations, stacked, side by side, one or two mid/highs per side, depending on the application. When they are in my theater they will be two bass bins on the bottom, with an inverted and aim-able mid-high. I need a 5Th la Scala for the center channel, and am considering Heresy's for the side and back surrounds. When I'm just listening to music I will probably talk myself into some type of tube amp affair.

Thanks again everyone, I'll post more later.

js

[mas]

Also, I agree that implementing proper subwoofage is absolutely vital with the lascala, but that also costs money....THE KLIPSCH THX SUBS /KA 1000 amp combo works well here.. hahahahah stacking the bass bins is a free experiment. You claim that it shouldn't sound better, but there are many that claim it does. Yea sure, it might be placebo....or perhaps just maybe, the possible issues to which you refer are of a very small magnitude. (and just to stress the point, I'm talking about doubled up bass bins, not doubled up HF/MF packs). So if I'm right, which I always am because I'm young and cocky, then perhaps you're misinterpreting the results of others?

Yes it works... Even with BOTH tops just invert them...

Truth be told, in my application, the La Scala bass bins are still on the floor then on top of one of them is a milk carton, on top of that is a vertical Cornwall THEN on top of the Cornwall are the two split La Scala tops..... (Top one is flipped upside down) It STILL sounds great, my amp seems cool to warm to the touch, and no issues at all... SOUNDS great and you can def feel a plane fly over you have that Doppler effect as it goes overhead on the screen.... hmmm maybe I just lucked into a great situation?

Older, trying to be humble, in light of real life experience, to the contrary of you can't do that nay sayers on here.....

Roger!!!

As the recent post brought my attention back here and I just noticed the above...

I hope that my comments (and others expressing various concerns) were not interpreted to say that stacking bass bins cannot or should not be done. This configuration can certainly be used to add to the output (gain) and lower the effective cut off frequency. And as mentioned this configuration is OFTEN used in SR and larger venue applications. My only concerns were that there is a tradeoff with additional anomalies introduced and that in a small space the advantages may not be fully realized as in a larger space. And thus, you have to decide if the tradeoff is worth the gain.

As Doc so accurately observes in his byline...its all compromise. And properly identifying and subsequently evaluating the advantages and the disadvantages in a give application is always a fundamental and prudent approach. That is why we made both suggestions regarding the stacked configuration as well as mentioned the limitations of such a configuration that would be encountered in a small acoustic space. Any one reading my previous comments, please interpret them in this light.

And I hope that still more will take the time and have the opportunity to experiment with various configurations. It is an invaluable learning tool.

But when all is said and done, each can make their own decisions as how to proceed.

Above all, enjoy and have fun!

...And JS, so it sounds like you have a plan! Great!

Now that you have decided on an approach, if any of us can be of any help, please do not hesitate to ask!

[colterphoto1]

I have mine stacked thusly in the garage (as we did in my PA days- mainly to get the horns at the correct height to 'cut their heads off'.)

I can state without fear of contradiction that listening is best at about the 20 foot mark. I don't know the science behind it but this falls within Mark's 10-30 foot region calculated for a slightly different scenario. It takes that long for the waves to merge together into a single menacing mass. Too close and it doesn't sound as musical. If you've ever been to my place, standing against the stone wall about 20-30 feet from the open garage, you'd SWEAR that Keith Emerson's grand piano was in there. It just becomes MUSICAL.

Other than that, just get an amp that is stable at 2 ohms. Roger, you only have one set of bins per channel with that ginormous Sunfire running at -30, of course it's still cool to the touch. What we're worrying about is guys doubling up 4 ohm cabinets through standard recievers and scorching them.

[IndyKlipschFan]

Michael... "Other than that, just get an amp that is stable at 2 ohms. Roger, you only have one set of bins per channel with that ginormous Sunfire running at -30, of course it's still cool to the touch. What we're worrying about is guys doubling up 4 ohm cabinets through standard receivers and scorching them."

YES, take someone with say a 30 WPC "el cheapo" stereo amp, well........ That would not be wise. [:'(]

But a lot of people on here have better amps, or even get pro amps that should / could handle this load, no problem. And that was my suggestion too. The 7 x 200 WPC Sunfire is nice to have.

I also felt the info I provided on Parallel and Series wiring would help people too.

BTW Nice AVATAR!

[DrWho]

I can state without fear of contradiction that listening is best at about the 20 foot mark. I don't know the science behind it but this falls within Mark's 10-30 foot region calculated for a slightly different scenario. It takes that long for the waves to merge together into a single menacing mass. Too close and it doesn't sound as musical. If you've ever been to my place, standing against the stone wall about 20-30 feet from the open garage, you'd SWEAR that Keith Emerson's grand piano was in there. It just becomes MUSICAL.

Yea, thanks for clarifying Mike [Y] Here I got the number 10 stuck in me head and it was 10yards, not 10feet [6] Mas hasn't taken me up on that thumb wrestling yet though...