Different VTA settings for Denon DL103 or Ortofon SPUs

[dubai2000]

There was a time when I used to be around this forum a lot more often, but somehow I felt that having concentrated mainly on: upgrading my speakers to their current state (see system profile) and getting a lot more thoroughly into vinyl playback, I wouldn't really have much to offer in terms of new/valuable experiences. I was mostly picking up information on mono cartridges (yep, got myself a Denon DL102), a tube phonostage of German descent and a silver wound step up transformer for my MC carts.

Well, to cut a long story short: I am sure many people have used the Internet to pick up a lot of information on cartridges like the Ortofon SPU or the Denon DL103. Having got two versions of the latter (the original in a lead body and the 103D) I was curious to learn how others set up those carts - especially regarding VAT. Consensus seems to be by and large parallel - the D version perhaps slightly lower, the 'plain' 103 slightly raised.

On Friday I stumbled across a very strange suggestion: if using a long arm like the SME 3012, raise the arm about 5mm for the SPU and 6-8mm for the DL103 (use 3-4 mm for shorter arms). I had never encountered this suggestion before (if you have, you will of course know what's coming...[]) but it is apparently based on 30 years of experience worked out by the Auditorium 23 proprietor Keith Aschenbrenner the the L'Audiophile group of Jean Hiraga.

Now reading is one thing (and some of the things I have heard about Aschenbrenner (who I do not know personally - BTW: there was a 6moons article about him and his Shindo stuff some time ago for those who want to do some online research), but what matters are listening impressions.

Thus I decided to give it a try - despite the fact that it already was kind of late Friday night so any listening would have to be done really quietly.

Lowering the cart to a well-known LP (The Final Cut by Pink Floyd) revealed a change that was not subtle: a much larger stage, more front-back perspective, more air between performers/instruments, simply more spacial information than ever before.

Tonally I did not notice any negative side effects. I was afraid of thinner bass, more strident highs (something often expected when you raise an arm too much).....but none of this here. On the contrary: bass seems to be a bit more precise and the overall tonal quality of the cart has not deteriated at all (of course YMMV).

A friend of mine tried the same with his SPU - his finding were similar, he also found that the SPU sounded a bit faster (but not in a hifi-ish way).

Listening this weekend to a variety of LPs I can say that I have not detected anything negative yet in this setup and thus it will stay - until I either begin to miss something, or until it's clear that those suggestions actually work.

One important notice though: this only works on carts with a spherical cut, thus the Denon DL103D or the modern SPUs with an elliptical stylus might probably need a more traditional VTA.....but for the time being I'm more into traditionally shaped diamonds anyway.....but that's another story.

So if you haven't done so before, try this different VTA setup, you might like it too

Wolfram

[Allan Songer]

My SPUs run with the back of the arm up just a TINY bit from parallel. Maybe 2mm or so? I set it by listening and this is where I seem to end up.

[lwhaples]

Welcome back! I always enjoyed your posts,though over my head at times. I went out to look at my Linn but have no clue as to how to change the VTA. I had my Denon DL103 on a Thorens/SME combo.Then tired it on another Thorens with a RB250,didn't like it. But it sounds good on the Linn LP12. The Linn is new to me so I guess I need to learn some more. What are your thoughts on the DL103R? Nice read by the way!

Larry

[Timmikid]

Welcome back Wolfram! I'll be reading this post with interest, because I am playing around with a 3012 and SPU GT/stereo. The latter I borrowed and is only for experimental purposes, before I decide on a SPU mono cart. Tim.

[maxg]

WB Wolfram - nice to see you posting again.

OK - VTA and 103.

Basically with the 103 - and indeed most cartridges playing with a combination of the VTA and the tracking weight will change the sonic signature of the cartridge along with soundstaging / depth and the rest.

Actually it goes a bit further than that - if you change amp and pre-amp, for example, you may well need to re-adjust these settings to re-voice the overall sound.

All of my tuning is on the basis of instrument tone. If I am on my own (harder) I use violins to tune the sound. If I am with Tony I put him in the sweet spot and then play "Mother" from The Wall (he knows it so well - it is his main test piece). Nicely we have confirmed a couple of times that our different tuning systems yield remarkably consistent results.

Recently I have changed amp and pre amp back and forth a few times. With the Yamaha in place I run at 2.4 grams and tail down about 4 degrees. With my old amp and pre in place I run at 2.2 grams and almost perfectly parallel (maybe a 1 degree inclination - tail up).

YMMV and all that - its all fun and games isn't it......

[dubai2000]

Thanks. guys, for the nice words!

@Allan,

have you ever tried this 5mm position? Just curious.

@Larry,

unfortunately I have no experience with either the Linn, nor the 103R. But I am pretty sure that the height of the arm can be adjusted. Have you got a manual? If not try www.vinylengine.com. I had been reading quite a bit about the 103R and was almost ready to order, when a 103 with lead body came my way (for a good price,too) thus the order never materialized. Most people seem to rate the 103R more highly, others say it sounds too much like a 'modern' cart. Personally I do not find the plain 103 lacking in anything. Compared to the Musicmaker III I also own it's voiced differently (darker?) but not for a sec do I find that upper frequencies are not extended enough.

@Max,

vinyl playback is certainly fun and games......enjoyable ones, mostly. I admit that I do not find it necessary to adjust VTA/tracking weight when changing amps - basically because I'll be using the same phonostage anyway. I am not familiar with the mechanics of your Clearaudio arm, but it seems that you can adjust VAT as well. So why not try raising the tail a bit? But then of course the sound has to fit in with the rest of your system and of course if this position sounds right for you, so be it.

What surprised me, though (as stated above), is that this 7mm up position has never come up in my Internet readings and so it might just be that a lot of people will never try this.

@Tim,

mono carts are indeed quite fun - no, I believe actually necessary to really enjoy mono LPs! I am sure the SPU mono is a great cart, but I'd also suggest the Denon DL102. Not only is it more affordable, but it sounds pretty good and - though some people insist that you need the larger needle tip of the SPU to get the best results of mono LPs - the slightly smaller tip of the DL102 guarantees that you won't harm a more modern LP with smaller grooves (from what I have read it's not always clear which grooves will be found on a mono record - but I didn't get deeply enough into the topic to add more detailed information).